Gear

I'm thinking about buying a Batura as a belay / summit jacket mainly for Scottish winter use but I'm hoping that it would be pretty versatile if I ever get the money together to hit the greater ranges.

Has anyone got any first hand experience before I part with my hard earned dosh??

On another site, there has been a lot of discussion about the best jacket for 'Greater Ranges' mountaineering; RAB do a warmer down jacket without the waterproof coating which was recommended for this (weight and warmth considerations where rain wasn't a consideration) rather than a Batura.

I bought a Batura for Scottish Winter mountaineering use but due to 'lifestyle changes' never used it on those sort of routes, I tried to sell it afterwards but I couldn't get the price I thought the jacket deserved... Any ideas what size you're considering buying?

For Scotland I'd go for a Primaloft-filled jacket rather than any form of down, even with a waterproof outer. On the big, high altitude stuff, the problem is snow rather than rain so a DWR-treated outer is quite adequate. In Scotland, it'll get wet eventually regardless of the outer, that's life. When down does get damp, the surface tension of the water overcomes the ability of the down to loft and trap warm air so it turns into a soggy mass. Primaloft is far more resilient when damp and easier to care for generally.

Sorry, I know that's probably now what you wanted to hear, but I don't think down of any kind is the optimum choice for Scottish winter use beyond the pub / hut.

Check out the new Rab Primaloft-filled belay jacket if you like the brand. I've been using one this autumn and while it isn't as warm as a full-on expedition down jacket, it's designed for the sort of Scottish use you're talking about.

HTH

Jon

Having used down garments regularly in Scotland for the last 20 years I disagree with Jon! Keeping down dry isn't actually that difficult. Just don't wear it when it's raining (when you don't need it anyway). Down does get damp occasionally but I've never had it so wet that if affected the insulation.

That said, Primaloft and Polarguard garments are more water resistant, though nothing like as warm, and can be worn in the rain.

Thanks guys - I already have a good layering system using a MH Monkeyman fleece as additional insulation at belay points. The thing that appealed to me was that the copy on RABs website says that you can throw the Batura over wet fleece or softshell and I thought that perhaps I could get the best of both worlds (should have learned by now)

I tried the exped jacket on in a shop and think that it would be too warm for most UK weather (it lofts to nearly 6 inches thick)


The summit and summit storm are a lot lighter and would probably be fine for UK use but not for alpine winters or >5000m peaks.

looks like I may have to go back to the drawing board (or buy 2 jackeets)....?

Sorry 'jackets' not jackeets which must be filled with parakeet down

batura possibly a bit warm for scotland, but good for alpine winter or higher altitude belays
for HA mountains andes or ME annapurna type is better weight, for belays batura, waterproof outer and resistant inner, but not as warm,
you would be toasty in scotland on a long belay though, warmth wise for scotland you could use lighter, like a neutrino or me lightline or if on a budget there have been rave rveiws of the alpkit jkt

I use down and primaloft jackets in winter, both with pertex quantum outers. Down is warmer, but the primaloft can be kept on while you're moving, as long as it's properly cold.
I like both, and ideally I would like to carry both, wearing the primaloft and slipping on the down for belay/ rest stops.

I'm not infallible and I'm perfectly willing to accept that Chris may be right. I guess I'm thinking more of the hideous sort of mixed drizzle and wet snow days than crisper, drier ones. Also, I run pretty hot and pretty careless :-)

Scottish drizzle is a force to be reaconed with. I tend to stick with layeres of fleece under the Goretex on days like that. All my fleece is treated with PolarProof and it seems to keep it warmer if it gets wet

It's not drizzle, it's the sky. It's just a bit lower up here, that's all.

FWIW, I've found that I only ever use down on bitterly cold, dry days. The rest of the time I use synthetic and a Paclite shell.

Cheers.

Perhaps I should look at the exped again. has anyone got one?

andes jkt would be warmer than batura but not as warm as exped jkt, good for 6-7000m, a friend has one and i am always jealous

Thanks all... I've ordered a Batura as I get the feeling that it'll get more use in the UK.

Thanks for all your help and advice