Astounded by the juvenile arguments recently about garment x being too hot for situation y, with complete disregard for the wearer's physiology and personal comfortable temperature range.
I walked the South Downs Way in 2004, from April to October. I wore some light trousers, an old Polartec T-Shirt and wore/carried a Buffalo S6 Shirt in case of rain or cold. I spent quite a lot of the time wearing the Buffalo. Does that mean the weather in the South East was unseasonally cold last year?
I've now bought a real waterproof, a Paramo Velez. It's far less warm than the Buffalo. But surely I'll overheat in the summer...
And what's this about no waterproof being suitable all year round? I'm quite happy to live with the extra weight (and durability!) of a heavier waterproof during the summer, as it saves me shelling out for another jacket. It's like modern gear is so state-of-the-art that you're only allowed to wear the garments which are exactly optimised for your conditions.
How would we cope if we ran out of oil and had to return to ventile/oilskins/waxed-cotton? Would we all stay indoors?
Well said Alex, Entertaining though the other threads became (in a voyeuristic, car-crash kind of way!) they ended up as anything but the best this site has to offer.
This site is great. On gear (and other stuff) people seek advice, share ideas, and offer OPINIONS - but Right and Wrong? .....Please!
Gear is just stuff to do a job and different folk use different stuff for all sorts of valid reasons. When all's said and done it's a means to an end, no more than that. The site is called OUTDOORSmagic - remember?
One of the things that I always try to stress with site tests is that different people function differently. Two people dressed identically doing the same thing will run at different temperatures for all sorts of physiological reasons, ranging from build to fitness levels and basic metabolism. They may both suit totally different clothing systems.
I run hot and cool fast when I stop, but that's just me. The same's true of cut. It all depends on the individual.
As Matt says, in the end, gear is just a means of letting you enjoy the outdoors. In the end it's the people and places you remember, not which baselayer you were wearing at the time :-)
couldn't agree more Jon. Opinons are asked for and given, and should be respected for what they are, a personal account of what works for someone else and allows them to enjoy great outdoors in comfort
Alex, We would just go back to Ventile, Loden, silk, oiled wool etc. and there are non petrochemical alternatives to teccie fabrics. Viscose and its many variants for instance. In a nutshell, we would cope. We are all human and most humans like to argue and banter. Unlike you I don't wish to raise myself above such "juvenile" intercourse. life is much more fun this way. By the way I can recommend a good laxative if you are interested.
It's nice to know that there are some people who never get too cold or too hot and never feel uncomfortable. Some of us who attempt more extreme climbing and mountaineering do, however feel that it is worth being dressed according to the conditions and not attempting a 'catch all' solution to any weather. If this were the case the layering system would never have been invented.
I wonder how a Paramo Velez would get on in -20C with a 45mph wind
Agree - most people would think my "ideal" system is ridiculous. In weather such as we have at the moment, I start off with baselayer, thin fleece, and eVent shell. Whether it's raining or not. I get hot after 10-15mins, and take off the fleece, and walk in baselayer and eVent. If I get cold, I put the fleece back on, and I carry a synthetic duvet jacket for stops or emergencies. Most people would think wearing a shell when it's not raining is silly, or that another combo would work best, but after trying lots of different things, I can honestly say this is what is best. *For ME*. I don't think anyone really has the right to tell anyone else what should or shouldn't work for them :)
Alex - thats well said, however we are all entitled to our own opinion otherwise how would the outdoor manufacturers know what really works and what doesnt if everyone just turned around and said 'Yes i agree with you' without giving there own reasons or idea's for what may make it even better.
I'm a great believer in the 'one-layer system' for 75% of my time outdoors. Two layers come into effect in the winter. Three layers for me is a rarity!
Of course people are different. I sometimes walk with a pal who loves hot weather. When he says it's hot, I'm already dead! Conversely, when I complain it's cold, it's his turn to be dead! I don't think we've ever agreed on a suitable temperature in any of our travels at home or abroad, and naturally, we're unlikely to agree about gear either.
Just as an additional point to the 'people are different' theme which I totally agree with, for myself at least I find that my physical comfort varies from day to day - in exactly the same conditions I might be happy in a microfleece one day and need a down jacket the next. A lot of this might be down to how much I've eaten, how much sleep I've had and so on.
Well quite, Parky. eVent is so breathable, I never get hot and sweaty in it unless I am wearing too many layers (hence removing the fleece), so as well as being waterproof, it doubles as a windproof. No need to buy 2 items. Then if it DOES rain, no need to stop and rummage around to find the paclite malingering in the bottom of the rucksack! But again, that's just me! I like items to be multi-purpose and very adaptable (especially if spending over £200 on them!).
cara, quite right too. why pay loads of dosh for something that "sits in my sack for 90% of the time" when you can be getting top value for money by wearing it.
i have a final test of my event jacket. the dreaded commute test. this will let me grade it between g****** and p*****. i think it will come out around a 6 or 7 (g=1 , p=10) based upon experience so far. i hope i shall be pleasantly surprised.
Makes sense to me too Cara. I use a mix and match combination of short-sleeved baselayer with long neck zip (old Karrimor polartec thing - will it ever wear out?!!), Buffalo S6 Shirt and Paramo Velez. So unless it's warm I've always got a windproof later on top, and am pretty rainproof.
Paddy, I used to much prefer cold to hot weather but I've gone the other way now. Have I gone soft? ;-) However I'm not averse to a chill breeze on bare skin, in fact I rather like it, so I'm all up for wearing the Paramo or Buffalo next to the skin and opening the vents right up to keep cool! Likewise I'm quite keen on avoiding hats, I like the wind in my hair etc, so that works well to control temperature by putting the Buffalo hood up whenever I get chilly.
Velez in -20 @ 45mph? Over a Buffalo S6 Shirt with S6 Trousers on the legs, I think it'd be fine. Add my down vest in between when stopped. Would that work for you Mark?
A shell is great at keeping the wind out too-OK you can buy windproofs but for people without that much money/starting out, wearing a shell and baselayer is quite a good option.
The worst is sleeping bag ratings. You have to get the right cut, right material etc. etc. or you boil or freeze. Having said that, I've always managed, even in some pretty rubbish equipment at school-I always just put extra layers on, and was super careful to keep everything dry.
Ventile might not be hi-tech and modern, but it's still damn expensive!
If you want to put things in to perspective go walking with someone quite a lot older than you.
My mate Dave is 69 now. He used to run hot and 5 years ago wore his Paramo gear only when it was cold. I've noticed this year that he's wearing it more often now because he says he feels the cold more. And he's gone from 2 to 3 layers when out walking. It suits him and there's no way I could wear that lot without melting in to a puddle of....
What we can agree on is what gear is quality kit. We just wear it in different temperature ranges.
Wonder what I'll be wearing in say 5 years from now?
actually, I have worn ventile, wool etc. Ok, that may date me a tad. Nothing wrong with that,early climbing history dates back to a period when Norfolk jackets, woollen britches etc where the norm on the hill. The layering system was alive and well even in those days, re string vest, woolen shirt, woolly pullovers and so on. Technology has moved on light years since then. However, what suits one person may be anathema to another. You wear what you are comfortable with. Probably most of us would admit that at one time or another we have purchased some fancy high tech garment because Joe Bloggs wore it on his latest expedition to the blue planet or wherever and strongly reccomends it. Unfortunately it was not sutable for our personal need and now lies at the bottom of a drawer along with many other similar items. In summer I may wear a travel skirt to potter around the camp site, other women may well choose to stick to shorts or trousers. It is a case of personal choice. We are indeed all individuals, with our own foibles and ways and dress codes.
