Ask the Gore guys...

...about waterproof Gore-Tex footwear

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Jon Doran
02/07/2002 at 14:57
We're off to Bavaria to spend a couple of days with Gore at their testing facility and specifically to ask questions about Gore's waterproof footwear. We've got a few questions of our own, but what would you like to ask the men from Gore about the brethable, waterproof booties they supply to footwear manufacturers?

Any problems or points you'd like to bring to the fore? Let us know and we'll ask for you and report back.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Hedgehope Aztec
02/07/2002 at 15:10
First of all lucky b@stard.
Hmm, the only gore footware I have are Brasher's gtxs and a pair of berghaus cyclones 'multi activity' shoes and they both work quite well.
joan collins
02/07/2002 at 16:46
I'm happy so far with the goretex lined running shoes I've got, but how will I know when the goretex bit is worn out? (apart from wet feet)

And why doesn't anyone (as far as I know) make goretex socks or removable boot liners? Is there a technical reason? You don't always want the sweatiness of a goretex liner, and there's no point in wearing the goretex out unnecessarily on a dry day.

Where in Bavaria are you going?
Lloyd Bower
02/07/2002 at 17:24
I've seen goretex socks for cycling, though they're quite pricey & probably not much good for walking in.
Jon Doran
02/07/2002 at 17:32
Berghaus used to sell Gore-Tex socks, they were made from a two-way stretch fabric and fully taped which made them bulky and uncomfortable. I have to say that they didn't really work that well for me and no, they weren't great for walking because of the seams.

Gore are based in a town called Feldkirchen, it's nice and hilly and wooded rather than being surrounded by huge mountains, so don't get too jealous. We do get to go on a short walk in the Bavarian Kush, but nothing serious. The most important bit is usually trying the white local sausages... Fully waterproof and breathable they are.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Jon Doran
02/07/2002 at 17:34
Oh, Joan, I suspect you're about right when it comes to knowing when Gore liners are worn out - they leak - but will ask re the feasibility of removable liners. Makes sense to me, the things cook your feet when it's hot.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Lee Bryars
02/07/2002 at 17:38
One thing is for sure, when the gore-tex bit wears out you will know about it. Had a weekend in Brecon a month ago and headed out in the torrential rain... my pair of Karrimor boots were like a swimming pool after an hour even with waterproof trousers and gaiters over them.

I'm normally quite particular about waterproofing my boots, but relied on the gore-tex in this case, I doubt I will again. Having said that, I was up climbing around Cairngorm this March in horrible conditions with a pair of La Sportiva Makalu GTX and feel totally secure that there was no chance of water getting through those boots.

Excuse my rambling on :)
Dan G
02/07/2002 at 19:17
I'd like to know how many times Gore-Tex can flex before failing. I was working in a shop and said that's how I reckon how many GT boots fail. The other guy said GT never fails, it can flex 100,000 times. I then (sad I know but you may have noticed I don't back down easily) got a calculator and showed that a boot flexes 100,000 in just 60 miles - not very far.

I've had two pairs of GT boots spring leaks, and both times it was over the instep, where the boot flexes most, and now wouldn't touch the stuff in footwear.

So I'd like to know just how much flexing a GT boot can take.

Also I've also told customers not to buy fabric GT-lined footwear as if just one gorse or nasty bramble thorn penetrates the boot, they leak. Am I right in saying that?

Tenner says if you actually ask Gore that Jon, they'll fob you off
Orange Alex Ford
02/07/2002 at 20:12
I'd like the same Dan...My Karrimor's Gore-Tex lining has failed where my foot flexes.

I mean I love gore-tex lining, but isn't there a way thet they can make them slightly more durable (and yet still flexible and not too think and heavy)???
Dan G
02/07/2002 at 20:30
I know Sympatex always used to advertise on the fact that it can stretch and flex much more than GT therefore it's suited to boots, but I've nver seen it in anything other than Hi-Tec. Think it's commoner on the continent.
Ninja Marmot
02/07/2002 at 23:03
I have been lucky cos my Berghaus Explorers are 4 yrs old and have been 'well worn' and flexed to high heaven and the GT hasn't failed me once yet. My problems with them ATM are:-
- the suede/fabric uppers after 4 yrs are a bit out of shape and not very supportive any more.
- the heel lining and padding are also fabric so although the boot is still waterproof if paddling in a ghyll, when wading through long wet grass the water flows down into the boot by capillary action.
Jon Doran
03/07/2002 at 10:21
On the flex side of things, I know Gore have machines that test their boots with repeated simulated flexing for weeks on end, though no idea what this relates to in terms of mileage. Dan, what did you reckon in terms of flexes per mile?

Gore also have approval over clothing designs using their fabrics. Assume the same or similar is true of boots, but will check.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Hedgehope Aztec
03/07/2002 at 11:00
Now I'm not normally this sad, honestly! (I am waiting for a long complex program to finish running).

But:-

If on average I take 62 double paces to travel 100 meters, that's 124 flexes. If the life time of the Gore lining is 100,000 flexes then dividing that number by 124 will give the distance in Km before the lining fails. So 100,000/124 = aprox 806 Km and converting it into old money (multiply by 0.62) gives about 500 miles.
Bulldozer
03/07/2002 at 12:44
I started off with a pair of Karrimor KSB3 GTX boots which gave great service including a full course of Duke of Edinburgh expedition training and a 9 month RTW backpack before giving up the ghost and finally wearing through at the heel.

Am now into my 3rd season of a pair of Berghaus Storm GTX's and have had no worries so far.

Both pairs of boots gave superb comfort straight out of the box and they're looked after and given the occasional spray with G-Sport to keep them in tip top condition.

All in all, I've been more impressed with Goretex boot linings than with jackets made from the stuff but perhaps that's been just down to my bad luck!
Dan G
03/07/2002 at 20:57
I just guessed a metre a pace, 1600 paces a mile (1609m in a mile), equivalent to 100km or 62 miles as I know m/km/miles conversions. That's just a guesstimate.

I think Mike confused his units there, if I follow it comes to 80km, not 800
baga smartypants
03/07/2002 at 22:53
One of the good things about traditional all-leather boots is that you could have the boots rubbed out (I think that is what it used to be called)

In other words, the boots would be worked on to accommodate protrusions such as bulky toes, wider fittings, big toe knuckles and so on. This is a technical process and avoids letting your toes or protruding bits from doing the work themselves and getting all red, sore & painful.

Am I right in thinking that boots with a goretex lining cannot be rubbed out? It would probably compromise the bootee liner I think.

To me, this is one of the major reasons for avoiding goretex liners - the losses outweigh the gains. (similar story in jackets and trousers)
Dan G
03/07/2002 at 23:05
I'm not sure on that one - anothre Gore question!

Cotswolds, at least the Reading branch, offer a 'rubbing out' service, but I think we just called it adjusting or stretching or something
Hedgehope Aztec
04/07/2002 at 00:19
Dan I'm not sure if I have confused my units, (the methodology may be crap however) but as I've been to the pub, I'll wait 'till morning before I double check.
Ninja Marmot
04/07/2002 at 00:29
I thought 'rubbing out' was a Chicago term for erm wasting gangsters.
baga smartypants
04/07/2002 at 02:42
It may be knocking out - but that combined with my olives can poot me in a bit of a tight corner!

I think I will give Altberg a try- Their boots look good and (sh don't tell anyone at Altberg) their approach with customers is almost bespoke. Handmade boots made to order, in the UK? With a bespoke fitting service - I've got to give them a shot just to see what the final outcome is like.
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