Belay Jacket...

OK, I'm looking for a Belay jacket, but want a warm one... a really warm one! And preferably a cheap one! ... but it has to be warm (did I mention that?)

Basically climbing Mont Blanc in July, so going to be sweating for most of the climb, and want something to stop me freezing when we stop for tea and scones along the way.

Actually I'm just doing my boy scout thang, be prepared, hopefully the weather will not be too bad and I wont need a mega belay jacket.... but just in case it is bad, I thought I may as well have one in my pack (next to the foldable table and chairs for the tea and scones).

So, I just missed out on a half price Das Parka the other day  and that's the kind of jacket I'm looking for... expect I'd prefer not to pay £200 for it (the epicentre was selling them for £120 in their sale  )

I've got a Rab Belay (the older one) but I don't like the zip, its too fiddly, even without gloves on, also I don't like the Rab hood as it assume you have no neck... or no chin (whatever, its just awkward with the hood fully zipped up - but don't get me started on the zip again).

So I'm looking for a 200gm/m primaloft weight (or equivalent) belay jacket that will compress reasonable well in a stuff sack and not too expensive (hoping to get one in the sales in the coming weeks / months).

So your thoughts on the following would be appreciated, along with any other you think may fit the bill.

- Das Parka

- Mountain Equipment Citadel

- Arc Teryx Kappa (think the windstopper fabric will be too thick on this to make it stuff sack friendly - anyone got one?)

- PHD Zeta (emailed them yesterday, they can do me one all in black but it will cost £233.. but at least I could then wear it to the pub )

- Berghaus Combust (anyone know what the primaloft weight per sq m is?)

- Mountain Hardwear Alcove (anyone know what the primaloft weight and packability is like?)

- Cloudveil enclosure (what's their sizing like?)

Feel free to throw others into the ring, as long as they are lightish, compressable, black (not funky), warm... and cheap ...ish

> - Berghaus Combust (anyone know what the primaloft weight per sq m is?)

Pretty sure it's 170/133

The Incinerator is the warmest they do, but it's a mix of down & PL1.  (rrp is £250, though.  Ouch.  Can be found for £130 on eBay).

Despite prompting BH to put the figures on their website, the useless gits have done nothing.  The hang tags do quote fill weights, though, so find a shop that stocks them and ask.

The Combust is a lovely warm jacket -- the extra Primaloft definitely tells, as does the well thought out no faff design which makes it very easy to put on and batten down quickly. I wore mine a few times in our recent cold spell and never felt cold, even when getting a tent and other gear packed up on a morning when it was well below -10C.

Another worth looking at is the belay jacket Dacathlon do. Saw one a few weeks ago for £40 and it looked well worth it, and a good bit more. Not as polished as the Rab/Berghaus/Arc/ME etc. offerings, but I don't think that really matters when it's freezing on top of a mountain.

WPGB, what size are you looking for?

I have a brand new (with tags) Berghaus Incinerator for sale - (in fact I have two; one black and one red, both size Large).

Will sell either for £150 delivered; (insured).

Any hesitation about my credentials please note I have just purchased an item from another member, so my personal details are now known to other forum members - (if that reassures you at all.  I say this as I have had people interested in buying the jacket, but seem to think that something at almost 50% off RRP must be too good to be true - I have effectively priced them too low so now people don't want to buy them!?!)

I just googled Mont blanc July Temperature ranged and this is one of the hits below.

If I was going somwehere with that kind of temp rnages I would be packing Down and synthetic.

Climate, Weather, Temperatures:
High season for all mountaineering in the western Alps is mid-July through August, mainly due to the stable weather that time of the year. Day time temperatures can vary between 30C (86F) in the valleys to -20C (-4F) on clear mornings, when we start our day from a high level hut. The Mont Blanc is very exposed to extreme weather and high winds with corresponding wind chill factors are common place. that means, it can be REALLY cold! Best to check the weather forecast for freezing level and winds, talk to your guide and talk to your guide the day before the trip starts and bring warm clothing accordingly.

Hi guys, thanks for the replies, some good ideas there.

M D 6 - thanks for the offer mate, but I'm an XL in berghaus (the Large is a little too tight on me).

Tom - I wont be wearing the jacket when I'm moving, climbed to the top of Are mountain in Sweden over the New Year carrying my skis, it was only an hour climb through deep snow but the sweat was pouring off me even though it was about -25C that day (no wind), but the sweat froze solid when we stopped for a break (my hair was frozen), so I'll be climbing light and throwing the belay on when we stop (or if we have to stop), especially if the weather is as the quote SMM found.

Just remembered the OR Chaos Parka - SMM you had one of those, is it packable?

There's a PHD Delta belay jacket in down/goretex in XL in their bargain box

not cheap, but probably very good value

Kish Logan wrote (see)

There's a PHD Delta belay jacket in down/goretex in XL in their bargain box

not cheap, but probably very good value

I well understand your reasoning, but might I suggest that before you finally make up your mind you talk to PHD about this? Belay jackets are suppposed to be put on over wet clothing.

I've always found them  helpful, practical and realistic with advice.

My gut feeling is that protected down doesn't suffer much from damp unless it's regularly packed wet.

Have a look at the Arcteryx Atom SV Hoody, I got one recently from Planetfear it was reduced from £ 200 down to £150. I already have the Atom LT jacket and I find it very versatile as an outer layer and as an mid layer in the really cold weather.

I have used the Atom SV Hoody over the weekend and find it warmer and the hood is better as it has draw cords to tighten it down when the weather really kicks off.

The Atom SV Hoody feels a bit thicker but still seems to pack down fairly small.

I have used various primaloft jackets and never felt they were very warm. Arcteryx use their own insulation called CORELOFT and I think its better than Primaloft in both warmth and compressability.

Again this is my opinion!! I have to admit I biased towards Arcteryx gear as I have a fair bit of it

have looked at the phd website and about the delta they say:

A light down jacket for really tough conditions: proofed breathable Drishell inside as well as out. Put it on straight over damp or snowy clothing and don't worry about soaking the down

 I trust them. 

tom sargeant wrote (see)

Any reason why you only want to go for a synthetic? I have the Patagonia DAS Parka, and its waaaaay to much overkill for Mont Blanc. You want to be going alpine style- fast and light, and a something down would be more appropriate. When I did it a few years ago in July I wore a winter-weight merino baselayer, Rab VR smock and a lightweight shell jacket. When we stopped at the Vallot Hut I had a PHD Minimus down vest that I stuck on under my shell jacket, and I was a little chilly, but fine. I wore it for the rest of the push to the summit and ended up regretting it as I was far too hot. Personally I just don't feel the DAS Parka is cut out for alpine fast and light ascents.

Bump on the DAS being worn in COLD conditions.  If I'm going to be active (moderate or heavy) I don't even consider wearing mine until the temps hover around -13C and below.  Even then I only wear a midweight base layer beneath it.  You can really cook in the DAS if you're not careful.  And I wouldn't say I run particularly hot either.

Dan S.