Jacket or smock?
I'm aware that there are a few similar threads on here but I have a couple of specific questions so thought I'd start this as a separate thread:
I'm considering getting a cioch glamaig to compliment my winter weight paramo and had intended to opt for the jacket version, my main reason for this decision was based on the opinion that a full front opening would provide better venting options. However, as I usually find that I never wear a jacket 100% open (for reasons of keeping it from slipping off as opposed to reaons of keeping warm) I find that the best venting option, when wearing the jacket, is to have it open from the neck down as opposed to half above and half below (does that make sense?) Based on this, I'm now wondering if the smock with side zips would keep me cooler than a fully zipped jacket. Any advice?
Also, from reading several other threads and reviews I'm slightly confused about the pocket options of each...somebody mentioned having a kangaroo pocket added on the smock but I was assuming, from the photo, that a kangaroo pocket was the one it came with as standard.
As it's intended more for Spring to Autumn use I'd probably choose the half lines sleeves But any advice or opinions on this or either of the above would be much appreciated. Many thanks in advance!
It is difficult to compare the jacket and smock unless you have worn both. I have the jacket version with fully lined sleeves as I use it in Scotland as a three season jacket. It has two side pockets and an inner pocket with a zip which is also protected from the elements by the the main zip. The side pockets can be obstructed by the rucksacks hip belt.
I've had it for a few years now and I'm still happy with my purchase. Not sure I would want to change anything about it.
Cioch to compliment your winter weight Paramo? Something like:
"why Mr Paramo, you are looking smart today" perhaps? Sorry I am a homophone spotter and complement compliment is a favourite from work.
To actually add something constructive: I use a Cioch jacket and have used two types of Paramo velez smocks. Like you I don't ever let the jacket completely flap free (otherwise why are you wearing it) and came to conclusion that my Velez light (latterly) was cooler due to neck zip and the two side zips that (particularly with rucksack hipbelt) was much cooler. Now I carry use my velez all year but I appreciate that is unusual for Paramo and I have a light goretex for when it really should not rain. Sadly I can't contribute about the sleeves as all paramo fabric stuff I own has full sleeve.
The standard Glamaig smock set up doesn't change the pockets over the jacket at all. So you just get a 3/4 length main zip and side zips vs a full length main zip.
Thats in contrast to the more normal 1/2 length main zip and massive front pocket you often see in smocks. (Like the Velez.).
Overall I'd say it that it'd probably vent a little more than the jacket, but it does also of course make it non trivially heavier for when you'll be carrying it, an maybe a tiny bit more annoying to take on/off fast. Both things you'll often be doing ina normal summer!
Half lined sleeves I've tried and not sure. Basically your upper arms will get wet underneath, although it never collapses or anything so its more annoying than anything else. I did eventually get them to put the extra liner in mine, but then using it as my main winter waterproof.
If genuinely after summer think reasonable.
Thanks Gneiss: I can't believe that spelling mistake...I'm a fussy primary school teacher so it's usually me tutting at the incorrect use of apostrophies by other members of staff! D'oh! I blame the fact that my wife was watching Midsumer in the background!
Back to the jacket/smock: your comments confirm what I'd been thinking with regards to the venting and as I run hot (I'm a hairy little hobbit) maybe the smock's what I'm after.
Lindsay and Martin: You've now got me wondering (or wandering for Gneiss) if I should opt for the fully lines sleeves and use it as an alternative all year round jacket. I'd originally thought of this but as I've recently worn my halcon (even in June as it's been so wet) with the sleeves up and not been bothered by the wet arms I was thinking I might need to rethink my "I don't want to get wet" attitude.
As you'll appreciate, I think the halcon is at the upper end of their coats weight-wise but I like it because of the pockets. I use it mainly for working and walking the dogs so find the pockets very handy as I prefer pockets to rucksacks.
Martin, are you saying that the regular glamaig smock looks just like the jacket but with a shorter zip whereas the photo on their website is an altered one? Also, is the kangaroo pocket a side opening tunnel (like the velez I think) or a top opener?
Website photo probably a standard one, although it does perhaps make the zip look a little shorter than it actually is.
The pockets do look somewhat like a tunnel from the front but aren't. (No doubt could be made into one at request.).
Compare that photo to the Marsco/Fionn though. Very different.
Neal last week in the North of Scotland the temperature never rose above 10C and was lower on the hills and with the wind chill probably not much above 0C at times. It was June hence the reason I carry my Glamaig in the Summer as well as Spring and Autumn. In fact the best weather this year was in March. Last week I was wearing three layers at times and used my Glamaig on a couple of occasions during heavy showers.
It is a difficult decision as shown above as folks have different ideas. I think it depends a lot where and when you are walking and whether you walk hot or cold.
Hope whatever you decide works for you.
Thanks again for the extra information...it's starting to make more sense now re placement of pockets etc. I was previously picturing the smock as similar to the velez ( I think that's the one I've tried on). Maybe what I need is the glamaig smock but with a zipped top opening kangaroo pocket.
Mole, at over 700g, does that mean yours is the Marsco as the Glamaig is only around 500g and would therefore, presumably, not be as warm?
I know that the greater the number (or size) of pockets, the greater the weight but it's difficult to decide on the most efficient compromise.
No, Mine is a Glamaig. It isn't as warm as an Paramo Alta 2 (only other Paramo I've worn)
I suspect that the 500g is for a size medium jacket with beachcomber fabric and unlined sleeves.
For a 'perfect fit' mine is XL across shoulders, Large chest/waist and and 1.5" longer body and 2" longer arms than standard. It also has Paramo 'windproof' as the face fabric which I think maybe a little heavier than the beachcomber. Being a smock it has more zippyness too.
I don't see how you would get a Kangaroo pocket with the design as is - the centre zip comes to just below my ribcage. (shorten that I guess, and omit the inner chest pocket)
The earliest I've worn it is October in the lakes and Dartmoor, and the latest is March. (though if going up north I'd consider it later than that)
I generally only use my smock when I think I will be wearing it all day, as a sort of waterproof softshell. (If I knew it was going to be torrential for hours I'd probably take a another light waterproof or poncho depending on what I was doing - I'm not a total believer in the infallibility of the Paramo concept!)
Lindsay's point "where and when you are walking and whether you walk hot or cold." is very valid.
I would say if I was planning to use one on Scottish(or Lakes etc) tops in poor weather, then yes summer use could be OK if it was cold below as well. Myself, I'd probably be using an eVent jacket then - for more fllexibilty in case it got warmer)
Warmth mainly from liner + existence of outer fabric stopping wind, which is the same in all of these jackets so quite similar really.
Obviously something with many more pockets will have quite an amount of double layers of fabric, so a little bit warmer than the Glamaig which doesn't in many places.
The side zips on a smock are probably (at least?) 100g by themselves, Paramo face fabric a little bit heavier (110g/m2 vs 93 for beachcomber), the fully lined sleeves and there's maybe the choice of hoods too. Reckon the heavier, 'winter' hood is well worth it myself.
(I've got the normal one on my round town jacket and its fine, but not quite the same.).
They're probably the best people to ask about the details of such things mind
Thanks Mole and Martin, each bit of extra information is making more and more sense.
I basically wanted something more all-year-round friendly than my halcon but I think maybe the glamaig smock with side zips, although definately cooler, would possibly just give me an alternative 3 season waterproof.
Somebody also pointed out to me yesterday that another drawback of a smock is taking it off when it's wet and that a drawback of a large kangaroo pocket is you end up with everything in one pocket which a) makes it saggy and b) makes it as much use as a woman's handbag...not much good if you're a bloke who's used to the compartmentalizing of pockets!
Maybe I'm better off with either a glamaig jacket, a velez light or...something completely different!
Thanks to all the advice and opinions on this thread I've decided to go with my original plan which was a jacket with fully lined sleeves. Lindsay's comment of, "Not sure I would want to change anything about it," won me over!
However, after speaking to Cioch I still have one more question: I'm really happy with my halcon hood which is described as a "fully adjustable, roll-away hood with wired peak for excellent field of vision and fit." Based on this description, do I need the standard glamaig hood or the other hood?
Thanks in advance!
Need? No, unless for a helmet etc.
The standard hood is purely adjusted by the side cords, although it does of course fit quite well to start with due to the tailoring!, and has an OK wired peak.
Nothing to complain about, but the winter hood is fully adjustable and can be adjusted to be a fantastic hide away in horizontal hail and the like.
I'd certainly call it hugely worth the cost/weight trade off. Purely for summer though? Less clear cut.
(my about town coat has the simpler hood.).
The hood is fine in rain that is coming straight down. Not so good in driving rain or snow but then I hope not to encounter these condtions except in winter when I would be wearing my winter Cioch jacket which has a suitable hood for these conditions.
Thanks again Martin and Lindsay.
I've placed my order and opted for the normal hood. I figured that as my halcon hood has coped admirably during two winters then this one should be good enough...now I need to decide between cascade, pajaro, velez or quito trousers!
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