Crux tents

With the selling of my VE-25 i need a new tent to replace it. I dont need the space that the VE-25 gave me, as their is now no longer 3 of us miandering off into the hills!

I was looking at the 2 Crux tents, the storm and bomb. Anyone have any experience of either? I was looking more specifically at the storm, as it looks pretty lightweight!

Half_viking 

Bombproof is all i can say .Fellow Omer Ray!! has one.

I have the Bomb but have only had it a week but when we went out last weekend in the Brecon beacons the wind was 70mph and the tents did not budge,slept like a baby .

Not used one, but they strike me as well designed and implemented in excellent materials.  They're a bit narrow inside for lots of comfort two up compared to some alternatives, though of course if there's only one of you that's a bit of a moot point (you say there aren't 3, but are there 2?).  The other potential downside is they pitch inner first and need the inner in place which some people don't mind and others dislike quite a bit.

A similarly light  tent that gets you round those is the Hilleberg Jannu, though that'll not take the heavy flak as quietly having a bigger unsupported porch to flap and only 3 poles.  But it does give you more space and is a shade lighter.  Another alternative would be the Hilleberg Allak, which also gives you twin entrances and porches but again is only 3 pole so though it's strong I'd expect it to be noisier.  I'd prefer to live in the Alla kif there were 2, but then I really like my second porch and entrance.

The TN Ultra Quasar is a little heavier but gives you a second porch and entrance.  IMHO materials are not quite as good, but I'd still trust them to stand up to just about anything you're likely to have thrown at you.

As well as the Lightwave f2 Ultra Diddy mentions there are their g2 tents which are 3 pole rather than 4.  They should still take just about anything though, but may be a little noisier and more mobile when doing so, and not quite so good at serious snow loading (ditto for the Jannu).

If it's just one then the Hilleberg Soulo would probably fit the bill, though I like a bit more space myself, even if I do have to carry more weight for it.

 That's all geodesic or near geodesic, assuming that's what you want as the VE25 and the Cruxen are all geos.  But for most jobs tunnels are quite tough enough, lighter at the same space and typically quicker to put up.  They're usually quite a bit noisier in a blow though.  The other advantage of geodesics is that if you've got to pitch on e.g. rock shelves they're easier to work with, but in practice that's not much of an issue.  I have a geodesic (a Hilleberg Tarra, recommended for 2 that like their space but not 1 as it's 4 Kg) but it only gets used when weight and bulk are rather non-issues (out of a sea kayak or canoe, usually).  I think the main reason tunnels are ruled out is either misconceptions about what they can take (a bad reason), or people just preferring the "feel" of geos (a good reason).  So if you're of the latter persuasion then that's what you should have, but don't rule out tunnels just on strength grounds.

Pete.

Diddy,

glad to see your first impressions of the Bomb are good! I feel a warm glow knowing that I had a small part to play in that...

Peter,

I've no personal experience of Hilleberg though there's no doubt that they make some of the worlds finest. Your comments in the past have encouraged me to take the plunge into trying out tunnel tents (I have been hauling around a 4kg all-in Ultra Quasar from 1998 for the last decade!). So I picked up a T2 Cylq (2.4kg all in) in the Lightwave sale and will certainly be reporting back once I have a chance to test it properly.

Half Viking,

My experiences of Crux as a brand have been entirely positive. They offer exceptional customer service and their designs and materials are of the highest quality. I own a couple of packs and a Flak Jacket in addition to the Lightwave tent mentioned above (their sister company). I don't know their full geo tents personally, but if I was in the market they'd be high on my list.

John

I saw a Crux full geodesic in a tent show for £100 (down from £350 at the time since it was a return unused although it was checked by Crux and given new poles, pegs, flysheet and waranty). I went to check if I had a spare £100 then came back with £80 plus the intent to increase my overdarft to get it. Needless to say it had gone.

Totally bombproof. I got told that one of those models was pitched in the Coire Leis under Ben Nevis in the line of a notorious avalanche zone. It survived the winter there. Don't know if that is true but I liked the hutzpah of the sales guy trying to make me believe it.

John - I am tempted by the Lightwave sale, do you know anythign about their 1 man tents, in particular those T0cylq ones that are 245 internal from point to point. Do you think they will have a usable internal length of 2.1m which is what I prefer? Are they good tents? Probably all gone by now, but let us know how your's is in case of another similar sale in the future.

Hi Paul,

I looked at the zr0 cylq offer if that is what you mean? Judging by what I have received from Lightwave - which seems very nicely made (not yet tested) and at a good compromise between weight, size and strength, I'd imagine that they would be a nice little solo option.  The materials in the cylq line would be much the same as what I have in the T2. I weighed mine on my luggage scales and got 2.40kg including everthing inside its bags (2.30kg listed).

However, as well as thinking I wouldn't get much use out of a solo tent, I also figured that the £120 asked for an '05 zr0 was a lot less good value than the £75 for the '03 T2 that I bought! There was also a T1 cylq at a very manageable 2.1kg if you want plenty of space for solo camping and enough to share if necessary. They are shown as having 2.15m internal length.

Oh.. and I'll certainly give my impressions once I've test it out properly!

John

Peter, the tent is for 2 of us, as we used to be a 3 man team. However, fully geodesic is prefferable, as it will be used in the snowline alot. Normal stomping grounds are Norway, Alps and scottish winter.

I have experience of Hilleberg gear, being partly from that neck of the woods. Ace tents, I had a Akto for a while.  

Thanks for the Lightwave direction, we shall have a shufti at that!

Weight is a key factor, as it means i can liughten my pack up/ extend the winter trip away.

Half_viking 

Forgot to mention that Crux storm flys fits the bomb so you can have a two man tent with normal porch or a two man tent with extra porch if you buy the bomb first.

Half-viking, I'd say a lot of it is down to how friendly/expansive the two of you are in close quarters.  The Cruxen are 120 wide at the door and IIRC taper a little, so that's not actually much space by some standards, but plenty by others; I think the best thing to do is seek out either  a Crux or at least something with a similar size of inner and see how happy the two of you are in it.  Obviously some people are fine, others will prefer to sacrifice something for a bit more room (the missus and I insist on at least 140 cm wide inners if it's anything more than an overnighter, for example, but we're fussy, don't like sleeping head to foot and prefer not to wake one another up accidentally).

While the 3 poles suggested aren't quite as bunker-class as the Cruxen they should still take anything likely to hit them.  Where I'd go for the full 4 pole is if you're expecting to use the tent as a static base-camp for days or weeks as the snow loading aspect becomes a lot more important then.  If you're moving house fairly regularly it would be less of an issue, and personally that's where i'd lean to the Jannu or the g2 ultra over the Crux.

 If it's a lot of snow use maybe the Ultra Quasar not such a good call as there's a bit of a gap around the base of the fly so spindrift can blow in and it won't be so warm.

I used to assume tunnels weren't up to serious snow use... but then I discovered that the likes of the Nammatj are popular polar expedition tents and I had to revise my opinion somewhat!  The Nammatj 2 is a little lighter than the Cruxen and comes in the same basic fabric but actually has slightly thicker/stronger poles and a tougher groundsheet.  The inner is wider, but the back tapers away more than the Cruxen.  If your adventures are primarily mobile (i.e., strike camp and move every day or two) this starts to look like an attractive option, though, especially as it's usually quicker to strike and pitch than a geo (aided by the all-in-one pitch feature that all Hillebergs share).

For home comforts in the way of extra space and/or a second entrance the Allak probably comfiest with a large porch and door each, but you'll lose a little in the way of strength (I'd still trust it though, and you can double pole it for extra security like all Hilleberg models).

I guess if you were happy with teh VE25 inner-first pitching doesn't bother you: I should declare an interest that it bothers me, so I tend to be biased against things that do it in my suggestions...

But back to the Crux, as long as you're happy in that size of inner it should hit the bases you're asking for very well.

 Pete.

Following what Pete said about tunnel tents in the snow,

Lightwave also produce an arctic version of their two & three person tunnel tents :

http://www.lightwave.uk.com/en/tent_t2arctic.php

With the third pole over the main section of the tent, the inner & outer clearance is better maintained and the whole structure is stronger. You'd get a spacious 150cm width in the T2 with a massive porch for sitting out bad weather & storing gear.

As I've mentioned above, my experiences of tunnel tents are about to begin... but if you are willing to go the tunnel way, then these would be high on my list. What is more, Lightwave tents are modular so you could purchase a T2 Ultra or T2 Trek flysheet for when you needed the tent to be lighter and were prepared to sacrifice the big porch (you'd drop about 300g in the flysheet and another 2-300g for the extra pole, making it about 2-300g lighter than the Crux Storm). Either way, there's a lot more body space in the T2 than in the Crux tents.

You can also by Hilleberg flysheets separately to use the common inner of a standard or GT model... but given that the fly is most of the price of the tent, and the tents are very expensive, this might not be quite as good a shortcut as it sounds at first...

Thinking a bit more about my space comments, one thing you get with the 4-pole design you don't get with a 3 is more usable volume, as opposed to just space:  one can sit at one end and one at the other, without losing headroom, and that can help make up for a relatively narrow footprint for general living (though my favourite tents combine both features, albeit with a weight penalty).

Pete.

The thing is with tunnel tents is they deform and absorb the wind energy that way. Geodesics are more rigid and rely on the strength of the poles to resist the wind without much flexibility in the structure. I know people who have had snapped geodesic poles while a supposedly lower rated tunnel in the group had survived the same conditions.

I rate tunnels highly and will probably always get them. I had a 3 season tunnel that survived winter storms and even some snow loading. Whereas 4 season geodesic and even 4 season tunnel tents owned by people I know have failed. That I don't really understand why, I guess my old tunnel tent which is a little like the Macpac Minaret must have been under-rated.

Of course Hilleberg, Crux and force10 tents IMO are a class act. They are not big companies so quality is more important. You are less likely to get a dodgy one, one person in the outdoor gear industry once said that for smaller companies returns are proportionally more expensive to deal with so they do more to make sure their products are right first time. Take POD rucksacks or Aguille for example. Don't know if it is still the case inlight of everything being made in China these days.

Hillebergs are made in Estonia.  And each one is "signed" by the individual that made it (a little name tag is sewn in by the serial as part of the QA trail).  Aiguille is still made in England,I seem to recall POD are being taken over by the folk that own Rab and manufacturing outsourced to China, though I don't know exactly when and the details may be wrong.

IME of tunnels and geos (I have one of each, and a single hoop) either can be remarkably strong if well designed and made, but one thing you can get with a good geodesic is a lot less noise,  Given the choice of wind noise or extra space at the same weight I'll personally go for the space, but it's not a no-brainer if the noise or tent motion (our Kaitum moves around enough to set up small internal drafts!) keeps you awake to the point of leaving you unrested.

For most purposes I prefer tunnels these days for the extra space at the weight.  But the geo/dome is still ahead if the weight and bulk isn't much of an issue (in my case travelling by boat, but also a lot of base-camp applications).

Pete.

Is wind noise really an issue? Have you tried earplugs? Or according to a story I heard once that an ear nose and throat specialist once recommended to someone who shouldn't get water in the ear to use bu-tac. By all accounts it makes a good earplug for noise too.

Ever since I first used earplugs I never camp without them. I think they were the single item that gave the biggest improvement in sleep. I've bought better sleeping bags, mats and pillows, but it was the couple of quid spent on earplugs that gave me my first seriously good nights sleepin in the hills.

The one thing with geodesics is they can be easily moved being free-standing. Tunnels completely collapse and you need to re-pitch completely if you need to move the tent around. Geo just unpeg, move then re-peg, easy and quick.

Yes, I use earplugs, but the fact remains that a tunnel in a gale with earplugs will still probably be noisier than a Quasar without earplugs in the same place.  Since I use tunnels the noise obviously isn't a deal-breaker, but it is, well, noisier!  One does more in a tent than just sleep as well, and quieter is generally nicer.  But so is extra space, and while I'll go for the space others may prefer noise reduction, especially if they're sharing and wanting to interact without shouting so much.  It can also simply be psychologically more reassuring, and thus more restful, not to be in a tent that moves around.  For me extra space is something I get every time, where quieter is onlyan issue if it's blowing a hoolie, and it often isn't.

 The one thing with geodesics is they can be easily moved being free-standing. Tunnels completely collapse and you need to re-pitch completely if you need to move the tent around. Geo just unpeg, move then re-peg, easy and quick.

We found moving our Hilleberg Kaitum tunnel is remarkably easy just as long as you've one person at each end; grab the corner pegging points and off you go.  And I've seen free-standing tents unpegged for moving caught by the wind.  Happened to one of my tents once, thankfully a fast moving friend caught it before it set sail on Loch Etive, though another pal had a Quasar sinking into the North Sea off Tentsmuir, so it isn't always the advantage you might think!

Pete.

Thanks for the advice guys. I once had a TNF fortress 33 "no i dont have a addiction to TNF tents, i have only had 3". However, it is a past tense. We were out in the snow line, In the cairngorms "Beinn Behrac type area". We pitched as per norm, however the wind got seriously going and knackered the tent. After that we made a desicion to get a Geo. We have had it in iceland, on a Vatnajokull glacier, where it remained strong in the worst weather i have every camped out in.

Im looking at the 3 pole design, however my main worries is seriosuly high winds, or, In heavy snow fall.

Half_viking 

H-V, one data point isn't really enough to condemn tunnels, and as Paul points out above there are cases where tunnels have survived and geos failed.  Fact is that it's implementation dependant on the specific tent, not a simple case of "is it a tunnel or is it a geo?".

Case in point is that Hilleberg's reputation is partially founded on tunnels (Keron and Nammatj) used for things like trans-polar expeditions where there's lots of snow, lots of wind, and tent-failure is simply not an option. Not only do the folk come back, but they go again and stick with the tunnels as the lighter weight for the space and quicker pitching are genuine advantages.  Also, a lot of the strength of a tent comes from the fabric, it's not all about the poles.  And all the ones we're looking at here have very strong fabrics.

But as already suggested, if you're plain happier with a geo it makes a lot of sense to stick with them, because first and foremost a tent is something you need to be able to trust. I'd put that as number one priority if you're in serious places, and if it takes 4 poles to trust it then get a 4 pole.

Note that for extra paranoia all Hillebergs (tunnels and geos) can be double-poled by design to take the worst conditions more smoothly.

Pete.