DUKE OF EDINBURUGH BRONZE RUCKSACK BOOTS TENT

Hi guys. Im going to go on my dofe bronze expedition and i need walking boots, rucksack and (optional but otherwise i have to use crappy leaky school ones) a tent.

big question. IS EX ARMY STUFF BETTER? surely what the army use should be the best? or not?

either way, can you tell me your opinion, and where to buy the tent/rucksack/boots you favour?

thanks very much,

simon

As Guy said,

 There is better stuff around than ex Army, probably cheaper to buy also.

 Hi Tec, Regatta, for boots.

 The likes of Decathlon, Aldi, Lidl, etc. stuff is good enough for price, so is quite good.

 Vango for tent is a good place to look.

 You could also see what's the 'bargain offers' in outdoor shops. A lot of 'last years' kit is sold off cheap to make room for new kit.

 Or you can always try OM classifieds, flea bay, etc.

I'd certainly second Husky's suggestion to keep an eye on OM Classifieds - quite a bit of my gear has been bought secondhand from OM-ers.

Quite a lot of outdoors stores (including big chains like GO) sell 'DoE Approved' gear, especially tents and rucksacks. If you are buying for prolonged intense use you need a generous budget but for one-off or occasional use you can get away with less expensive gear. Obviously you won't get the same durability and cheaper gear tends to be a bit heavier (lighter weight costs more by and large).

Welcome to OM, by the way

Ditto all the above, and remember even the cheapest Millets special is miles better than the first gear I ever owned.

Come to think of it I made a lot of my stuff..........

anyway, it is a 2 day expedition and the area will not be too hard going, that is not to say that it isn't a challenge - it is, it's meant to be!

But you won't need all out mountain gear, if you are going to go on to Silver and Gold, invest in good footwear and waterproofs or borrow kit.

A good, positive attitude is way more important than gear, don't take too much junk food, it is heavy and just makes you feel sick after a while.

I have been building up my kit for the last 30+ years and I think I am getting there now, you won't get it all right first time.

Have Fun

Steve D

I'm not that clued up about Army issue... but some years ago I came across a squad of soldiers patrolling in a forest on the Ulster Way in Northern Ireland, and when they checked me out, they were more interested in checking out my kit, rather than me!

Anyway... they told me that they didn't particularly like Army issue kit, and were always on the lookout for better stuff to buy themselves. They showed off some of the stuff they'd got, and then pointed out the one guy in the squad who was entirely kitted out in Army stuff, and I couldn't help noticing that he looked pretty miserable.

Having said that, nearly all of the kit I started out with was from the Famous Army Stores, but on the other hand, it was all basically cheap tat.

Hi Simon,

I've been a DoE trainer and assessor for...too many years..and have my Gold DoE.

 You could blow a budget of several £000s on this list if you really try...and your parents wont thank you for it.

Rucksacks - all rucksacks leak.  Millets or your local independent supplier will have a decent one at the right price, then buy some rubble sacks to waterproof everything.Dont get anything larger than a 65l. 

Walking boots - I use a pair of sports direct specials that I got for £18.  Basically I suggest lightweight and reasonably cheap - you are only out for a couple of days, you will probably get them wet and dirty and you may well trash them...but for £18 who cares.

Tent.  Use the school one - the chances are they arent leaky but do suffer from condensation due to the hot bodies inside (that'll be you).  More to the point, buying, storing, supplying spares etc isnt your problem with a school one.  If you must buy a tent -Millets again.  If you can, get a two or thre man and share it with your mates. You will be assessed as a team - as an assessor I always view billy-no-mates in a single man tent carefully.

GOF wrote (see)

...as an assessor I always view billy-no-mates in a single man tent carefully.

How would you have viewed me and three of my mates on our DoE, squashed into a two-man tent?

absolutely fine Paddy - thats teamwork at its best and team work is really what is being assessed.  Every member of the team playing to their strengths so you could have an individual weak in navigation and a poor walker but who can cook a 7 course meal for 6 on one trangia (I have seen it happen).

The other extreme is hillwaking sections of GCSE and A level where the individual is being assessed - so a team can work togther really well and achieve everything but the individual still gets a low grade becuase they cant navigate or walk.

I stand corrected

Steve D

GOF wrote (see)

I've been a DoE trainer and assessor for...too many years..and have my Gold DoE.

 You could blow a budget of several £000s on this list if you really try...and your parents wont thank you for it.

Tent.  Use the school one

as an assessor I always view billy-no-mates in a single man tent carefully. 

Very similar to me, but got out of all D of E stuff few years ago -

Totally agree with most of the replies so far - sleeping bags, rucksacks and boots can all be got second - also try Gumtree.

Depending on where you live you might be able to get factory seconds .

You may find that some people started doing DofE and got loads of kit, only to stop very quickly. see if you can ask the teacher/leader if the know anyone like that.

Tent - yes use the school ones, usually they are quite bulky/heavy force 10 etc, but split between the group they are OK. Never seen anyone on a D of E expedition in a solo tent. Well, except the assessor if they are hardcore.

Personal recommendation is buy decent water proofs - you can use then after you finish the award.  

There are a fair number of threads on both surplus and DoE.  Pretty much all of the surplus ones echo what Chris says, which is that much of the army tries not to use a lot  of the army stuff, even so they get it for free.

Army boots are heavy, although not a bad price if you find the right place.  I'm actually wearing German Army boots at the moment, and they are very practical, comfortable and hardwearing.  They also weigh a ton, and even on a Bronze DoE, would exhaust you just walking in them. 

Cotswold are doing a pair of Hi-Tec Altitude IV boots for £59 (the mecca of army surplus, Endicotts, are doing 'new' british army boots for £39-49).  With DoE discount, etc, you might do even better.  Even if you never do DoE ever again, a pair of half decent walking boots are always useful.

Try TKMaxx as well.  They often have Karrimor KSB boots (one of the few things that is decent with the Karrimor name on it these days, unlike the Sports Direct stuff), and of coure they will have fleeces, socks, Sigg bottles (my seven year old got one for £2), Craghopper trousers (does anyone buy these full price?), and the occasional waterproof.  Lidl/Aldi base layers for running/skiing are excellent (in fact so good I snagged pretty much the last bamboo T-shirts in the shop).

The same goes for a backpack.  If you can't borrow one, then look around for something decent, but not too expensive. 

Argos has an outlet on Ebay, and they currently have a Vango 60lt rucksack for £21.79 plus £2.99 P & P.  As long as its not too big for you, it looks like a bargain (the very similar Contour 60+10 is £50-70 elsewhere). Certainly a lot better than going to Mountain Warehouse (overpriced tat) or surplus stuff (trashed and seldom all that comfortable).

I'd stick with the school tent at the moment.  Your not going to get a decent one for less than a ton (I know, I'm looking to buy one myself) unless the fabled Tiger Paws comes back, and you can use that money in better ways.

Spend your money where it will do the most good, keep you comfortable and be useful if you never do DoE ever again.  Decent boots, decent waterproof (its rainy in Britain, so buying something that keeps you dry is never a waste) and an OK pack.  Alpkit is great - their headtorch is a must buy, and their drybags are very good value.

The only thing which you could get from surplus are mess tins (I've still got ones I bought 30 years ago, and they are dated 1952!), and the german mess kit and KFS are really good.

I found a kit list from an ATC squadron (that brings back memories!) which seemed pretty good, and a quick search around OM will bring up plenty of DoE advice.  Good luck!

Chewie wrote (see)

You may find that some people started doing DofE and got loads of kit, only to stop very quickly. see if you can ask the teacher/leader if the know anyone like that. 

It was ever thus...

Almost everyone who thinks 'DofE' automatically thinks of the 'expedition', but that's only a four-day trip. The rest of the DofE scheme is made up of things like choosing, following and developing an interest, and performing some sort of community service, etc. These are things that last for months... even a whole year... while the 'expedition' is only for four days.

So... it's sometimes the case that someone gets fully equipped for the expedition, but simply doesn't have the staying power to stick with a long-term interest, or stick with long-term community service. Hence... they fail... and are possibly left with some kit to dispose of.

Re. Mess tins.

 OK, last a very long time, but so does a Alu pot.

 Going by what Forces peeps have told me, mess tins is one of the first things they 'change'. A round pot fits in to sacks better and heats water, etc. up quicker, even using the Hexie Stoves.

 An other thing is to get good socks, normal everyday socks can't/won't do. They will either fall to bits and/or cause blisters.

 A good pair of hiking socks are worth their weight in gold.

 They can't always stop blisters, but are more likely to, plus the designed cushioning makes them more comfy, so can ease foot soreness.

Paddy

You're right enough (although Bronze is only a 2 day exped) it is a small part of the overall award.  But I would say that the exped is the part that really sticks in the most peoples minds.

Different parts of the award stretch different characters, I work mostly with girls up to Gold level, the fall out between Bronze and Gold is quite marked, this year for example we have 7 Bronze groups, 2 Silver and 2 Gold, next year we expect to get more Gold as some girls are skipping the silver this year.

Some of the girls love the exped and it really brings them out, others hate it but really enjoy the service or skills part.

I really enjoy helping out with DofE, every so often you get a group or individual that gets a life changing experience on their exped, it is a real priviledge to be involved in enabling that experience.

Steve D

Paddy Dillon wrote (see)

I think one of the toughest parts, for young people, is to follow and develop an interest for anything up to a year, and be assessed on it. I briefly lent a hand with DoE groups and came across someone who said she was interested in the works of Herman Hesse, and wanted to follow that interest for her Gold DoE. That had me stumped, but I mentioned it at a leaders' weekend. A guy in the corner piped up - "Oh, I happen to be an expert on the works of Herman Hesse!"

Here's a quote of mine from six years ago. (Blimey... have I been on this forum so long?) Anyway... it illustrates that some parts of the DofE are considerably tougher than the expedition. What the heck to I know about the German novelist Herman Hesse?

Hi. I've recently completed Gold DofE  but it wasn't my first experience of hiking and camping as I've been in scouts for a number of years. Before you buy anything, ask yourself this: "After DofE are you going to continue with outdoor pursuit like hiking, or will DofE be the only time you do these things?" If you're not going to continue beyond Bronze, then borrow kit or buy cheaply. If, like me, you hope to continue hiking, buy something decent.

I used a Vango Sherpa pack, Karrimor boots, Vango Ultralight Sleeping bag. As for waterproofs, I invested in a decent Mountain Equipment jacket and Berghaus trousers - quite expensive but they've got loads of use outside of DofE, so were worth the cost. 

As for Army surplus gear, I've not really used it but I know that you can sometimes find some decent kit.  I'd recommend sticking with conventional kit from outdoor shops (don't forget to ask for DofE discount)