i'm going to try paramo

shell trousers are knackered so i thought i'd use their replacement as a chance to try out this paramo thing.

need something that is good for winter hills but typical british rainy summer too.

so which pant? i know absolutely nothing about paramo's range

This is my first winter wearing Cascadas and i wish i had done it years ago,maybe a bit to warm for the summer though.

welcome to the dark side.....

Problem with Paramo is it is quite warm, so are too hot for summer use really (and this from a hardened Paramo user).....but, autumn, winter and spring they are, IMHO the mutz gonads.

I have used Cascadas for 10 years and recently picked up a pair of Aspira sallies second hand.  The Aspiras have been great in the current/recent conditions, but I can already see that they will be overkill outside full on winter.

For summer, I just throw a cheap (regatta/gelert type) pair of leggings in my pack just in case - or, if the weather is settled wet, wear the Cascadas

I can vouch for the Cascada trousers. Wore them out in seriously chilly near white-out conditions on Kinder Low the other week and they were excellent. The Velez Adventure trousers seem to be a better cut, but more expensive. Andy Howell is a fan, check out his posting here.

Robert, have a look at the new Velez Trousers - same system as the Cascadas, but lighter, therefore not as warm (I have the Velez Adventure Light top and it's definitely not as warm as the old Velez), and they have a much more 'modern' cut than the Cascadas.

I've also recently invested in a pair of Aspiras which as Simon says are perfect for current conditions, but wouldn't be in more normal British weather, but their cut is superb, and I'm hoping that when Paramo bring out a ladies' Velez trouser they'll be cut similarly.

hoping the lightweight ones (the velez?) could be used alone in summer, and combined with base layer pants for use in winter.

i guess the problem is my old shell pant was used for summer and winter, the trousers and/or baselayer underneath was what i altered depending on season.

this isn't really buying a replacement for a shell is it, it's buying replacement trousers that don't need shells.

thanks for the help everyone.

I've also recently invested in a pair of Aspiras which as Simon says are perfect for current conditions, but wouldn't be in more normal British weather, but their cut is superb, and I'm hoping that when Paramo bring out a ladies' Velez trouser they'll be cut similarly.

Not quite sure how to take this Kate - they fit me well as well....

Its Simone on Saturday nights.....

(thats me sorted - on everyone's ignore list from now on)

my personal jury is still out on the velez trousers as i don't think they will be as waterproof as the cascadas. the cascadas are excellent and as others have said, the aspira salopettes need proper winter weather at which they excel.

furtech also make similar trousers but there have been comments about them leaking and until i do some more experimentation i couldn't recommend these.

you won't be able to wear cascadas year round as they'll be too warm for summer. but then again i'm impressed that you wear waterproof trousers in summer as i find a shell just far too warm and sticky to wear unless necessary in summer. if you can do this then you may well get away with cascadas in summer.

i carry a shell trouser in summer. obviously paramo isn't waterproofing you carry and use as required.

why do you think the velez won't be so good?

i think the l;ightweight versions are pandering to the market who just don't understand the concept or principle of paramo. i belive paramo is baggy cut as it won't work as well if slimmer cut. i also believe the fashionable light fabric is just that, fashionable.

the reason why? well, i've worn thin pertex, something a bit thicker and the paramo fuera in the rain. only the fuera resists rain for the longest time and seems to let less water through once it gets wet too. using a lighter weight face fabric means that it will wet out quicker, let water through in a shorter time and allow more water through.

for a jacket this is less of a problem as in a jacket there is little constant, variable compression of the fabric as theer is in trousers i.e. your knee moves up and down all the time hence compressing the fabric at the knee and front of the thigh. as this presses the face fabric the face fabric wets out first at this point - or with a light fabric it will wet out more quickly. once this wets out then the liner face gets constantly rubbed with water causeing that to wet out. this can set up conditions by which water may be forced through the liner - your leg is getting quite wet and sweaty as breathability will be zero at this point.

but that's only my opinion. my further opinion is perhaps you need to get out a bit more if you're going to fret about a few grammes weight of stuff you're wearing whose effectiveness could be sacrificed upon the misguided belief in the altar of leightweight.

and the cascada has far superior venting options with full length side zips.

Parky Again wrote (see)

my personal jury is still out on the velez trousers as i don't think they will be as waterproof as the cascadas.

Why do you think that Parky? I've not got the Velez trousers, but my Velez Adventure Light smock has already proved itself every bit as waterproof as my other Paramo jackets.

I see your theory about the pressure at the knee with trousers. I take the theory, but if Paramo have done any kind of decent job with the cut of the articulation then the amount of movement and rubbing should presumably be minimised....  I suppose time will tell, do let us know

Sand Dancer wrote (see)

Codpiece?

Parky Again wrote (see)

but that's only my opinion. my further opinion is perhaps you need to get out a bit more if you're going to fret about a few grammes weight of stuff you're wearing whose effectiveness could be sacrificed upon the misguided belief in the altar of leightweight.

it's not the weight, it's the too warm issue i'm concerned about.