Is My Down Bag Produced Correctly

HI

I have just bought a PHD Minimus with 900 down. On inspection I noticed that you can see through the patchy down leaving bare areas where the outer touches the inner fabric with no down there. You can notice the spacing of the down but on the top baffle (nearest to chin), there are only small clumps at each side and absolutely none whatsoever in the middle. Is this done deliberately as perspiration from breath may dampen it anyway. This is my first expensive lightweight down bag and don't know if I am unknowledgable regarding possible explanations being a. There's only about 250g of down so it's not going to cover all areas. b. It's just been a couple of days after being squashed up in the post and need to re-shuffle the down into position myself (would this therefore require doing everytime it's been packed) c. Am I expecting too much for so little in weight and volume size. I read many great reviews on PHD down bags but feel the initial workmanship is'nt what I expected. Also, on the photo from the website, the bag looks full with no spacey bits. I will of course take this all bag if that is the way it's meant to be as they got it to me quick time so I am not here to slate the bag (as I have'nt even used it yet). Toast though, but I was sleeping in the living room.

Damon,

I have some light bags, e.g. a rab q200 that you can sometimes see patches of light through in places and it's been fine. Give it a shake and see what happens when you redistribute the down a bit, maybe focusing on shaking the majority of down to where it will lay on top of you and check again.

I would be inclined to let PHD know about your observations and reservations and check with them if they think this is normal.

If it doesn't work for you as it is, I've heard that PHD can be quite amenable to adding extra down, so could probably top it up with another 50g if that is what you need.

Yep. Give them a call if you're concerned. They're very helpful.

It's best to call before lunchtime.

I have a PHD bag, and the baffle nearest the face drawcord hardly has any down in at all. I think it is designed to be like that because in the winter sale someone asked the same question on the forum, and it was a common observation. I have a minim (300 - I think!), so it will have more down in than your bag - but I definitely found that there is less down around the face, but LOADS in the footbox You need to give your bag a really good shake and let it fluff up for a while because such fine down clumps together - and I dont think being transported in a plastic bag helps with static.

 Like the others said though - phone if you have probs.

Thanks for the reply chaps

Yeah, just an initial concern and as it seems to be the norm, I will see how it goes on the hills and may contact PHD just for reassurance.

Ta

It was here:

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/dt/4/UTN/28769/

I left mine over the spare bed and it carried on getting puffier for at least 24 hours - maybe two days. I think they really squash them down for postage; probably more than I'd ever do in practice.

My 300 has a very sparsely filled first baffle as you have noticed. Like it or not, I think it's meant to be that way .

John

David Bell 7 wrote (see)

What type of construction is the bag? I have a ME Xero 350 and notice that the down can clump together. From what I've read this seems to just be the case with bags using box-wall construction. It's a really light way (apparently) to design a bag but can allow cold spots. That said, mine is a toasty bag and I think this may be more of an issue in theory than in practice.

If only there were more days in the week so I could spend more time out there.

What everyone here is highlighting is an issue with any bag that contains very little down - for arguments sake lets say any bag that has less than 400 grams of down inside.

Any decent manufacturer should specify not only the total weight of the down going into a bag but also the amount of down within either the individual baffles or as an absolute minimum key sections of a bag. For Mountain Equipment we specify individual baffles and dependent on the technology this can be very accurate, in our case to within +/- 0.2 microns.

However what this does not solve is that a small amount of down (i.e. less than 400 grams) is a small amount of down to spread around a fixed volume (i.e. the size of a standard sleeping bag). Therefore there will always be migration within baffles that cannot be prevented by any baffle construction and therefore 'gaps'. It is therefore more important that you care for your bag correctly and that you shake and distribute down within the baffles in order to minimise the chance of any cold spots developing.

Clumping of down together is another issue entirely and usually relates to either storage or cleanliness. If new the best thing you can do is leave open to air, giving it a thorough shake and if desperate get a steam iron (dont put into direct contact with your bag) or steamer if you have one and use it to blast steam at the bag which will have surprising results to reinvigorate loft - dont whatever you do iron your sleeping bag, that could be catastrophic!

If it is just dirty then WE Franklins of Sheffield or Mountaineering Designs of Grange, Cumbria are usually the best people to speak with.

Richard Talbot - Product Manager - Mountain Equipment

Richard Talbot wrote (see)

Any decent manufacturer should specify not only the total weight of the down going into a bag but also the amount of down within either the individual baffles or as an absolute minimum key sections of a bag.

Errm, where exactly do you specify individual baffles, Richard? I've never spotted any information except fill-weight and down quality regarding ME bags, much the same as most other manufacturers.

E.g.

http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/the_gear/down_sleeping_bags/extreme/dewline---419/

Just thought the info Richard referred to might be on the "technical data" buttonbut no luck.

He'll be back to explain........won't he? 

Richard Talbot wrote (see)

If new the best thing you can do is leave open to air, giving it a thorough shake and if desperate get a steam iron (dont put into direct contact with your bag) or steamer if you have one and use it to blast steam at the bag which will have surprising results to reinvigorate loft - dont whatever you do iron your sleeping bag, that could be catastrophic!

Another technique I've heard to reinvigorate the loft in a bag that has been stored compressed is to pop it in a dryer on a low heat with a damp cloth, but I haven't used this technique and so can't verify it as effective.

I wouldn't expect to have to do this with a new bag nor one that had been correctly stored though.