Marking maps

Permanent highlighters?

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Jon Sutcliffe
04/09/2011 at 14:43
We have recently started DofE at school, and had our first groups going out last term. They have been using the laminated OS active maps, and have been marking their routes on with permanent OHP pens (we have also been marking their routes on our maps in a similar way to do our remote supervision).
It's generally worked okay, but I have noticed that in tricky areas, the marked line covers some detail on the map.
I know I can get them to mark slightly off course, but was wondering what tips anyone else might have. Are there such things as permanent highlighters which they could use over their route, yet allow them to see through to the map underneath, which we could then was off with suitable solvent afterwards?
ALoveSupreme
04/09/2011 at 16:14
What a waste of a good map. Why not use a route card, or a sketch of the route? And learn to read the map! It's close to vandalism to write on a map - your life may depend on the detail you are obscuring. You could put the map in something like an Ortleib mapcase and write on the case perhaps.
Edited: 04/09/2011 at 16:15
Jon Sutcliffe
04/09/2011 at 16:28
Well, it's not a waste of a map. They are laminated, waterproof and the route wipes off with a bit of meths once they have finished. I do know how to read a map, and we also teach our kids how to do it. We also teach them how to write route cards which they have to submit before their expedition. However, apart from them finding it easier to keep track of their route (especially when sharing navigating), it is very useful for us as remote supervisors to have their routes marked on one map. It is not always clear from their route cards exactly which path will be taken, and being able to see two or three routes in different colours on the same map makes it very easy to decide on appropriate supervision strategies.

However I agree with you about bits being covered, which is why I asked if anyone knows of any kind of permanent pen (wipeable after the event with a suitable solvent) which enabled to detail of the map to be seen beneath it. Failing that any other tips/experience gratefully received.
Martin Carpenter
04/09/2011 at 16:36

Electronic mapping software? So you could print map cards with routes drawn (neatly!) on and keep the master map clean.

Memory map and stuff a bit expensive of course, but some of the online ones aren't.

Paddy Dillon
04/09/2011 at 16:42
Take an old laminated map to your local stationery office and have a good scribble with all their markers. Find one that works... and buy it!
Moel Hebog
04/09/2011 at 17:25
I have spent a huge amount of time and effort over the years to find what you are looking for Jon. I have to mark my maps up with military map symbols when on exercise and operations. Put simply, what you are looking for does not exist.

Personally I use superfine permanent OHP pens and use a broken line to mark the route rather than a solid one. Rv's can be marked by a very small dot and a vertical hatch mark at 12, 3,6 and 9 o'clock. For removal of permanent pen, make up removal pads work very well but you need to ensure all residue is removed as it can melt the laminate. There are OHP eraser pens and erasers available from most good independent stationary shops. There are highlighters that can be erased (Pilot Frixon) but they are non permanent on laminated maps as are normal highlighters.

Another option is to use a soft pencil (3 or 4B) but you will have to roughen the laminate up with some fine wet & dry first. Pencil markings will be removed using a normal pencil eraser.

I have used all of these methods when supervising DofE teams successfully.
Belgian_Hiker
04/09/2011 at 18:38

From my flying days I used a 'Chinagraph' pencil for route planning on laminated maps. Easy to rub off afterwards and leaves no trace.

Here is a link to the first pilot shop in the UK  that came up on google:

http://www.flightstore.co.uk/chinagraph-chart-pencil.asp/charts/chartpens

ALoveSupreme
04/09/2011 at 19:19
Once you let kids write on maps there's no limit .. they'll be writing on walls next... then scribbling in books .. then tattoos .. it's just a slippery slope. Respect the map. Do they need to use a finger to read? Why teach a technique that needs laminated maps and a fancy marker (that you haven't yet sourced)?
Edited: 04/09/2011 at 19:32
Moel Hebog
04/09/2011 at 20:05
Slight overreaction methinks. Using laminated maps for group work makes sound economic sense being durable and long lasting. Likewise there is a need to write on maps if required by the individual. Yes respect the map but it is a tool to be used. My text books are covered in notes and highlighted passages as well as post its. ?
ALoveSupreme
04/09/2011 at 20:24
But why obscure map detail particularly the detail close to the route? Kids will get lost. (Not surprising if you've put a 200m wide bit of marker all over the map). When they get lost they won't be able to relocate because the map's got coloured marker all over it. Silly. The OS guys went to a lot of trouble to record and print minute detail. Why trash the map with marker? Why not paint a big line on the ground for the poor weans to follow - same colour as the marker line on the map? No wonder there were riots in Tottenham.
Edited: 04/09/2011 at 20:24
footloose
04/09/2011 at 20:26
Use the superfine ohp pens then rub off with hard eraser.
Robert Locock
04/09/2011 at 20:30
I have a set of highlighters, from Wikinsons, which are removed using the rubber in the cap.
Tall PC
04/09/2011 at 20:34

Not sure if it is of interest but normal permanent markers can be found in thinner points I think. As far as cleaning permanent marker off laminated maps I do know that on whiteboards if you need to get ordinary permanent marker  ink off you over-scribble with a normal whiteboard marker then wipe and the permanent marker comes off. Not sure if that will work on laminated maps but if it does then perhaps you can use something like a fine fibre tip permanent marker. Perhaps even a felt tip pen might work in a similar way. However that is a big PERHAPS in that as I have no idea if the whiteboard eraser technique works on laminated maps nor finer felt tip pens.

Anyway, only putting the information out there in case of interest and you want to try it out on an unimportant part of one of your laminated maps.

Just another thought but harveys maps can come in a weather resistant paper and in the 1:25k scale. That would allow finer pencils to be used. Not sure if you can erase coloured pencil marks that well but with a finer pencil you could at least use different symbols such as dashed line, dash and dot line, line made up with plus symbols, etc. to mark different routes.

Personally I hate marking on maps but understand your reasons for doing so. A mate used highlighters on one map and I went out to get highlighters to do similar for one of my trips. Got as far as uncapping one highlighter to mark key details (not the route line but key features like paths crossing, bugout routes, likely navigation difficulties and hazardous sections). Anyway I just couldn't do it. IMHO a map is a work of art and my scrawlings don't make it any better. It has everything you might need already on it.

ALoveSupreme
04/09/2011 at 20:36
Correct. It is an act of stupefying arrogance and vanity to think you can improve on an OS map with a marker pen. Not to mention dangerous, in the case of the O/P quite possibly culpably so. The world has gone to the dogs. Gi's an A Level.
Edited: 04/09/2011 at 20:37
Matt C
04/09/2011 at 21:01
ALoveSupreme wrote (see)
Correct. It is an act of stupefying arrogance and vanity to think you can improve on an OS map with a marker pen. Not to mention dangerous, in the case of the O/P quite possibly culpably so...

It seems a little odd to me, and quite unjustified, to so vehemently deny there could be any reason to mark a map? How about adding useful information specific to the trip, or not included by the mapmaker? (Although certainly best not to obscure any useful detail already present).

Have you seen the BMC DVD, 'Off-Piste Essentials', ALS? In the section on planning, the qualified guide extolls at some length the benefits of adding such information to his (laminated) map ahead of the trip.

He didn't strike me as vain, arrogant.... or unqualified!

ALoveSupreme
04/09/2011 at 22:09
Which bit of the detail on the map might you not need? Why make any detail of your map, particularly those close to your route, harder to read, especially in poor light? The O/P has twigged that it might not be that clever to obscure map detail. A great continuous splodge of OHP marker is not "adding useful information" it is obscuring it. No wonder Tottenham burned. Shocking. Leave the map alone. Teach kids to read a map, not draw on it. Use an overlay, or a mapcase, if you have to. Don't believe everything you see on DVDs either. Why not paint a line on the ground for the poor things? No wonder the urban environment is covered with tags and graffiti.
Edited: 04/09/2011 at 22:27
Matt C
04/09/2011 at 23:11

What utter drivel

Tiffin
05/09/2011 at 00:35

Um, here's a thought.

Would it be too much for them to carry two maps, one marked with their route, the other not marked at all so that they could read the two maps side by side and compare the difference.

ALoveSupreme
05/09/2011 at 06:30
rofl!

So Matt, what's your solution? How do you write on a map without obscuring detail that may be useful, especially considering you may get lost? (Which you have just increased the likelihood of by splodging coloured ink all over the map). How did people manage to get a DoE award before marker pens?
Edited: 05/09/2011 at 06:31
Jon Sutcliffe
05/09/2011 at 07:09
ALS it is a pretty standard technique. I think you are being quite ridiculous. I have acknowledged that there is an occasionally an issue with some detail being covered, hence I was asking if anyone knew of anything which would be SEE THROUGH!!!!! (And not rub/wash off during normal use).

At no point did I suggest that we were marking lines which are 200m wide. A 0.5mm fine OHP marker (which we use) works out at quite a lot less than that - unless of course I was asking my DofE groups to navigate by using a road atlas. Of course I am just so dumb I probably would do just that!
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