old school clothing

 we all talk of quantum pertex, paramo, goretex pro, zone technologie, wicking, etc. etc.

but has old school stuff that has been around for thousands of years and has got its place... check out 900 fill diamond grade goose down. how do we chase that one?

  eider?

or the laboratory? 

I like to think I am a balanced Taoist sage of the hills enbracing both schools of thought..

but without the marketing, whats your views?  I love my montane speedlite, VR trousers for winter, have a couple of paramo's, HH, merino, etc. etc.

but also love my charity shop cashmere jumper, extremely warm, soft, light. exothermic qualities.

oh, also my lambswool jumper from marks and sparks, thin, warm, breathable, light layers...isn't that the holy grail of what we are looking for?....oh and that was £2.99 and had it 30 years...and the rest of my life....... when ever THAT may be ? 

charity shop cotton shirt with coller up to ,protect neck in extreme heat (alps in summer, being cooler than sythetics as sweat doesn't wick as an advantage here)

ps  had hyperthermia 3 times wearing cotton in britain 37 yrs ago...lesson learned !!!

woolen breeches, long socks (what happened to them, took on roll of leg warmers in previous thread.)

                                                   OM SHANTI

My early fell walks were with good old wool trousers, sturdy Robusta boots, a check shirt of unceratin origins, a Shetland wool jumper and waxed cotton jacket. The wool hat and gloves I also carried were ok, I suppose, but I can't say I would be at all tempted to use the other stuff now, even if it was still around and fitted me.

Though I love technical gear, I'm a great distruster of anything not absolutely raved about by most people whose reviews I read. That coupled with a near total lack of available cash means I haven't got that much technical gear. However seeing the hardened old mountain farmers (and trekkers from New Zealand) around me continuing to wear wools and non-technical-breathable stuff and coping very nicely thanks makes me feel very good about not spending magabucks on super (expensive) technical stuff. Personally the outer layers, tents and sleeping bags I'd go technical on if I could but for all the rest I dont mind the traditional stuff. Until a couple of years ago I was still using a millets wadding sleeping bag in sub-zero temperatures with no complaints.
I recently learnt a fortunately not very expensive lesson on 'the goretex and breathability lie' and have gone back now to a traditional poncho and another lesson was learnt on the big boot con and I'm now doing everything i used to do in boots in anything but boots. Over the years I have accumulated quite a few lessons.
I also have my memories. I did a lot of things years ago in natural fibres that would be frowned upon or ridiculed these days. The warmest, lightest and most comfortable hiking boot I ever owned, and I mean ever, were a pair of beaver skin moccasin boots. They lasted a year on moderately rugged terrain and it's something I'm thinking of going back to.
But as you point out location dictates a lot of choices and rigid adherence to the opinions of professional experts limits those choices even further.
A bit extreme but something that has always stuck in my mind as a walker was some experimental archaeologists I used to know who had spent several years in a reconstruction iron age village in some baltic country with horrible horrible winters with no problems that they ever confessed to. They wore skins and homespun wool and that was it. Not that I'd ever want to go that far but it sure made me think (hence the beaver skin boots) and put the march towards the technical into perspective.
However as I see it the procession of technical fabrics and clothing is closely tied to lighweight. If you’re not a lightweight addict there’s a whole world of stuff out there which is cheap, efficient and readily available and personally I’d love to see a return to its acceptance.

the "trekkers from New Zealand" comment reminded me:

In the early 1990's I got a sprayway hydrodry jacket (as a replacement for one under gurarantee) and found that the fabric had the magic property of drying on the outside, and being very wet inside. I don't *think* it was condensation.

Anyway, I was hosteling in the lakes with friends, and realised that I had a Swandri bushshirt:

http://www.swanndri.co.nz/Mens/Bushshirts/SD0103/Original-100-Wool-Bushshirt.html

and decided that it couldn't be any worse. I wore it all day in the rain in October. It took about 8-hours to wet through. It is very breathable (not windproof at all). But it did weigh quite a lot at the end of the day.

I still use it near campfires or bonfires, and it does keep me dry, and being wool is pretty safe, unlike other materials. In fact this experience probably convinced me that I wanted breathability above all else, and I bought a paramo jacket - that I have just replaced after 18-years.

om shanti indeed

Jim Parkin, big respect for admitting in open conference to wearing such a thing. Looks like it got seconds and third beatings with the 'TRUELY' ugly stick. I suppose being made in New Zealand stops them getting lynched.

Bedouin

Best not to get to close to Italy them being religious and all!

you see that's what I mean by acceptance, or lack of it. I sometimes wonder if the choice of clothing not perhaps dictated by a certain snobishness and shallowness tied to fabric fashion and the desiere to fit in and look cool on the hill? If it works for the person wearing it where's the shame?

It actually looks odder than it seems from the picture - especially if you realise that in NZ I saw lots of people wearing them with rugby shorts...

At least I assume they were wearing shorts They come down to knee height at the front and back and about mid thigh on the sides.

I have noticed Ray Mears wearing one on TV

But maybe he isn't really a fashion guru to follow.

My regular trips are to Finland and arctic Lapland.  Last year our warmest day was -25'C, the coldest was -45'C, without windchill.  Eeeek!

I've long given up with 'technical' gear for most of these trips.  Most synthetics go stiff and brittle and I have not found a membrane fabric yet that works well much below -15'C.  Not only that but I have learnt that while inner layers need to be relatively snug and fitted, outer layers need to be big and baggy so as to pump moisture out more effectively.  'Technical' does not often go 'big and baggy'!

Add to that material choice - my outer layers are Ventile (tops and bottoms) and base layers are merino.  Inbetween I do use synthetics but also plenty of wool and goose-down too.

And on my feet - mukluks made from leather, wool-felt and canvas.  And not much else.

Mother nature often knows best me thinks...

James

Not terribly old school I know, but this is amusing me

Just got myself another Norrona fleece (I know..... but they fit!) and the swing tag claims it to have the best warmth/weight ratio of any fleece they've tested. Looking at it/folding it for comparisons/wearing it I think I can believe that.

(its certainly a fair bit thicker folded than my ('08) R2 style thing of very similar weight.).

Why is that funny or relevant to this thread? Well it happens to look very like pile

Kind of puts the idea of continual improvements into perspective Not half as lovely looking as that fur style thermal pro stuff of course.

And it does have a reasonable degree of stretch which I'm not sure old style pile did. I wasn't around to find out!

Still much prefer wool socks and gloves to modern stuff which seems to be great for a short while then looses its advantages. How can you beat Dachsteins?  Can't wear wooly hats though. Too itchy on my ever increasing bald spot. In the mid 80's I lived in my poly cotton Rohan Pampas. Great for wet welsh winters over a HH pile jumper. Don't remember being cold and wet.

It's called evolution of gear (beter waterproof and breathing fabrics) and new repeatingly creating new insights in proper use of materials (merino as base layer does a terrific job). And the '100' years old thermarest is defintely not better or even adequate for serious wintercamping...

Mother nature often knows best me thinks...

For polar wear, I think very probably the case.  Membrane stuff is designed for lots of liquid water.  "Technical" cuts tend to be aimed at climbing athletes, not at UK walkers or polar trekkers.

Often it's the case that combinations work very well.  So that Pampas jacket someone mentioned is a polyester cotton mix.  You can get them from Rohan again now, only now with a silicone encapsulation treatment for more water resistance and quicker drying.  Those 900 fill power down bags have nylon shells.  My favourite socks are wool synthetic mix, the wool for warmth and comfort and the the synthetic for structure.  And so on.

Pete.