Paramo - does anyone else get wet in it?

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Chris Lawrence 5
26/05/2007 at 22:46
At the risk of sounding a heretic on this forum, does anyone else have a real problem with Paramo breathability, or am I unique?

Having bought a Velez smock on the basis of the performance of a pair of Cascada trousers, (which I have found to be the best waterproof trousers I have ever had) I have been very disappointed by the levels of condensation I seem to generate in it. I have tried it next to the skin, with a Cambia base layer, with a Mountain Shirt, and with all combinations I have started getting seriously wet inside. Once, when wearing it as a warm windproof in cold dry conditions, and on a long easy down hill, I managed to generate enough moisture in it to be able to shake the water out of it and moisture was running out of the sleeves.

The jacket went back to Paramo for re-proofing, and the second time I sent it back, they replaced it. I had the new one out the other day, and became uncomfortably wet inside it within half an hour, and changed it mid downpour for a Marmot Dri-Clime windshirt, which while not waterproof, breathed rather better and dried out quickly.

I am coming to the conclusion, that me and Paramo are just not to be (apart from my excellent Cascadas) and I will go back to my old Gore XCR jacket and live with it.
Parky Again
27/05/2007 at 15:58
no.

whilst i do get wet from sweat, i've found i dry quickly. curious how the cascada trews are fine.
Windy
27/05/2007 at 16:34
Used Paramo for past 7 years never ever had a problem with it. It is strange how the Cascada`s are fine, have you been in touch with Paramo again about this problem, they are very helpful and I am sure will want to sort this problem out for you.
Ninja Marmot
27/05/2007 at 17:24
Para*o is the only waterproof that I don't get wet in. (I've worn Paclite and had to wring out my base layer at the end of a walk due to perspiration.) I get damp while working but when I stop it permeates through and then I'm dry again.

Do you stop when wet inside and allow yourself to cool down (at a summit, say)? Does it then wick through and leave you dry inside? If not, then there is something wrong. Just remember that no fabric will stop you sweating; it's what happened to the sweat that makes Param* different to hard shell layers.
Paddy Dillon
27/05/2007 at 19:15
Far from getting wet in Paramo, it's the only thing that keeps me dry when the weather is at its nastiest!
LotC
27/05/2007 at 19:37
I hope not, Chris! I've just bought a Velez Adventure smock for exactly the same reasons as you - I have been so impressed with my Cascadas over the last 18 months. Either way, it couldn't be any worse than the Berghaus Paclite thing I've been using for a while. If so, I might just as well use a bin-liner and save some dosh.
Chris Lawrence 5
28/05/2007 at 15:27
It looks as if I must be doing something wrong, or must run hotter than I thought I did. Paramo were very helpful, and did suggest that Polartec 100 tops or Tshirts may not be the best things to wear under it, but I have the same problem with their own Cambia stuff.

BTW, Ninja, it seems to be the inner fabric that gets very wet, and it seems to stay damp next to my skin, and keeps my base layer damp. As the face fabric is windproof, I dont get cold when stopped, but seem to stay warm and damp.

As I seem to be in a minority of 1, judging by the replies, I would not want to put anyone else off the stuff, and as I said, their Cascada trousers are the best. Just beware that for sweaty hogs like me trying to stay dry, dont expect it to work miracles.
Chris Townsend
28/05/2007 at 16:11
Chris, I guess the problem is that you run too hot. Much as I like Paramo - it's my first choice from October to April - I do find it too warm May to September, which means I feel hot and sweaty inside and end up with a damp base layer and damp Paramo inner lining. I simply run too hot to wear Paramo in temperatures above +5C or so unless it's very wet and windy. When temperatures are unseasonably mild and I am wearing Paramo I find wearing the jacket next to the skin more comfortable than wearing it over a base layer. I also keep all vents and zips open whenever the weather permits.
Chris Lawrence 5
28/05/2007 at 22:37
Point taken. Meanwhile for summer use, can anyone suggest anything, apart from Gore-tex which I already have and am not that convinced by. I hear great things about Event, and not so great things about Paclite as per Lords posting above. Any views on Marmots Precip?
Metric Kate
28/05/2007 at 22:45
Hi Chris
As other OMers will attest, I run stupidly hot and sweat like crazy the minute I go anywhere near a piece of sports or outdoors gear - I got wet from sweat inside a Velez in a blizzard on the Brecon Beacons in February, with only a base-layer underneath!

I have the Marmot Precip pants which are pretty light-weight, but I still end up getting a bit damp on the inside. In terms of breathability for an ultra-sweaty person, I'd seriously recommend Event. I do still get dampness inside, but nothing like I do with anything else.
Jon Doran
28/05/2007 at 23:34
I run too hot for Paramo unless conditions are pretty much sub-zero so I can empathise with your experience. The problem is that the 'pump liner' element of Paramo's directional fabric also works as an additional insulation layer, so it tends to be warmer than a conventional waterproof. I'd second eVENT as the most breathable conventional waterproof fabric btw. You can still overwhelm it, but it will take longer.

There's a point at which it makes sense to use a more breathable softshell or windproof rather than get wet from condensation, but it's not an exact science.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Chris Lawrence 5
02/06/2007 at 22:48
Thanks for the advice all. I think I might give Event a try the next time the budget can stretch that far, and keep my Velez for winter.

In the meantime, I have found that as Jon suggests, a good windproof can be just as effective as long as it is not really bucketing down. Being a recent Marmot DriClime Windshirt convert I find it seems to do the job pretty well, copes with a range of temperatures, and dries very quickly.
I feckin' hate scree!
03/06/2007 at 22:11
Chris you aren't alone- I have experienced exactly the same. I wear my Paramo jacket only on the coldest days of the year but don't have so much trouble with the cascada trousers like you. I'm another sweaty person and Paramo just encourages me to sweat more as its warmer.

I'm not knocking the stuff- it just doesn't work for me (plus it looks really frumpy!).

PS Does anyone actually use the arm vents? I got told the theory but it really doesn't work (not that pit zips do either, except when I'm climbing)
Simon Parkes
04/06/2007 at 20:40
I do. But then I run cold. Really cold. I winter I've been known to wear base layer and leggings, fleece salopettes, fleece, cascadas and velez and hat and gloves. Last March I added a down jacket to this lot for an especially cold couple of kilometres. :o) And no, I don't have sweat problems with Paramo, even into June - not that it is very June-like. I guess that it's a different strokes for different folks sort of thing.

Jester*
04/06/2007 at 20:43
Yes, in really heavy rain I've found the trousers to be useless.
Noel
06/06/2007 at 21:29
I have just finished walking the Pennine Way - 3 weeks in that 'orrible wet May. I started with Paramo Cascada trousers - faultless throughout - and a lightish-weight Gore-Tex jacket.
The weather was foul for much of the time and I found the mesh liner of the jacket was wicking the wet up my back.
By the time I reached Hawes I had lost patience with this and bought a Cascada jacket. (I had left my old Alta jacket at home - damn!) The difference was amazing: I stayed dry for the rest of the way, I was warmer when it was cold (which was most of the time) and when it was warm I was actually cooler than I had been under similar conditions with the other jacket. With the Cascada I was able to walk with the front open when the rain was not too terrible and it was possible to roll up the sleeves very satisfactorily.
The Cascada was heavier than the Gore-Tex, but I was also able to send home a fleece gilet as it was no longer needed, so the weight pretty well evened out.
I have worn loads of jackets and sweated in them all, got wet in most, but for my money Paramo is the best of the lot.
Edited: 06/06/2007 at 21:31
Adrian Fish
13/09/2010 at 10:10
I get wet in my Velez Adventure. Not through sweat either. After buying it I decided to lay off the reproofing and see just how effective the fabric was at wicking water out. Not very it seems. I can literally walk 50 yards in moderate rainfall and my clothing underneath will be soaked, even at the shoulders.
Peter Clinch
13/09/2010 at 10:34

The above is a bit like saying "I decided not to open my umbrella to see how good it was at keeping the rain off.  Not very, it seems"

The system relies upon the liner being thoroughly proofed or it won't shift water.  It uses capiliary rise action which needs the water to "see" the fabric as hydrophobic tubes and if it's not proofed then it will just soak into it.  As you found out.

Pete.

Martin Carpenter
13/09/2010 at 10:35

Well, if described right, that really does sound like a defective coat

I'm a little bit sceptical mind. The outer layer of windproof fabric by itself should have more water resistance than you're describing, even if its proofing has worn off. Never mind the liner. They really shouldn't need (re)proofing on purchase either, although if they've been in a shop for ages can perhaps see why useful. 

(the DWR treatments they put on in factories 'normally' better than anything you can get at home. Although perhaps Paramo not quite the same?)

You are wearing sane stuff underneath I guess?

To add to the old, resureccted thread above, my thing from Cioch (basically a Velez so plenty of fairly exposed zips) has been very nice. No problems with leaks etc and some fairly wet weather for it to contend with.

In hugely wet weather I would maybe expect the side zips at least to leak a tiny bit but happy with that for the venting I get in compensation.

Well the optional unlined upper sleeves were markedly suboptimal in wet conditions but I chose them and they 'corrected' it for free Will be intrigued to find out how much warmer it is now.

Edited: 13/09/2010 at 10:35
* Diddi * Im on Mars btw !!!
13/09/2010 at 11:31

Oh look some more happy customers not!!!

.

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