Paramo Heat!

One basic strategy vs bin bag feeling is to wear a windshirt of some description for much of the time saving whatever shell you get for when the rain gets too much for it. Lots of threads on those, with choice maybe rather depending on weight tolerance.

They're typically ~50ish which leaves enough for a good 2.5 layer jacket, or a 3 layer thing in a modest sale. There was a recent thread on budget waterproofs with the odd idea.

The Rohan Ultra T is indeed excellent -- amazingly light, wicks very well and dries in a flash. It's also surprisingly durable given its very fine weave, although it does tend to catch easily on sharp stuff.

However, even it won't help much under an Alta II in the warmer months. Save that for below 10C or so (it will last for many years) and get a windshirt and 2.5 layer jacket, as Martin suggested.

About the warmth: I was out on Monday and early on, in the sun, was slightly overheating in just a thin soft shell - very close to a wind shirt in functional terms - and mid weight base layer and wore just the base layer for a fair bit of the walk.

Certainly wouldn't have wanted my (very nice!) Cioch stuff.

I realise that buying more kit is a solution we all like, but isn't the solution here to have less kit?  If you're too hot with something on, why not just take it off?

At 14C I'd be in t-shirt and shorts, or helly and shorts if it was raining. If I got cold I'd put on the jacket, whatever it might be.

All that said, I find a windshirt is a great middle ground, keeping me dry enough and warm enough in most conditions.

Yep, I have the Alta II as well and find it starts to get too hot around this time of year.

Still, I wore it at the weekend (around 10°C+ varying between sunshine, overcast and light drizzle) and was comfortable all day by using the various venting, sleeve rollling options. So pretty pleased to still be getting use out of it at the end of April.

Overheating is often suggested as a specifically Paramo drawback but at the weekend most of those I was with were wearing standard membrane hard shells (even though it never rained hard all day) and were sweatier than I was. 

Nonetheless next trip I will probably revert to my late spring/ summer windshirt (Patagonia Ready Mix) with cheap, lightweight hard shell in pack (Haglofs Aquarius) option.

The problem is that, if you're carrying the Paramo as your waterproof, once it rains you've got to wear it Well that and the Alta2 (@850g!) really isn't something you want to carry much either.

The 2.5 layer thing I mentioned is to do with the construction, but mostly because they're intrinsically (a) quite cheap and (b) light, which is good for something you'll be carrying quite a bit. From Go's stock RABs volt, or Montanes Atomic say.

For anything check the fit and especially the hood of course. And plenty of other valid ideas for such things - some in this recent thread.

In terms of windshirts, the Fuera (if it fits plausibly well), is good if a bit 'heavy' compared to some options. Which might of course not matter at all for you.

I also have an Alta II and have the same issues: it's simply too hot for me in spring/summer. Love it to bits in the cooler months, but when it's warm I use an Event shell (Montane Venture: other products are available!), and I've just got a Pertex Shield v. lightweight shell for running in (an Outdoor Research Helium, on offer at Field and Treck: OR Helium)

Both Event and Pertex Shield are v.breathable, especially good if you run hot, but as others have said: only wear a shell when you need it, otherwise you're asking for condensation problems. The Paramo shouldn't suffer from this, but it's simply too warm to wear in the summer and too bulky and heavy to carry.....

Martin Carpenter wrote (see)

The problem is that, if you're carrying the Paramo as your waterproof, once it rains you've got to wear it

Why? Unless you're cold, you could just live with being wet from rain, as opposed to getting wet from sweat. Either way you're wet...

To me, overheating is not a brand/type of clothing issue, its often results from a desire to keep rain off. If you can step away from the need to stay 'dry' from rain (whilst getting wet from sweat) then overheating largely ceases to be an issue because you wear fewer items of clothing.

Rain also smells much less than sweat.

Basically agree with above.

There is a specific issue with Paramo though, because their waterproofs come with built in insulation as an intrinsic part of their construction. Somewhat of a shame but I suppose inevitable or they'd be too close to perfect

(Technically that is. Fit/colours etc excepted!).

Think of them as lined windproofs which happen to be waterproof through some sort of magic  

i asked about what you wore under the alta as some like to wear the warmest possible base layer and then complain about being hot.

windshirt and/or a gilet type thing is a virtual must to keep you warm - it doesn't matter if you're wet as it's important that you're not cold.

with a waterproof there are two choices - wet from sweat or wet from rain. people carry their "very breathable" waterproofs simply because they aren't "very breathable" at all (breathable in relation to a waterproof means water vapour transfer and not air movement) and are bloody uncomfortable to wear for a long period - depending upon fabric just depends upon how long it takes before you become a hot, sweaty, damp mass and in my experience that period isn't that long. if they were as good as the marketing depts make them out to be then they would be worn all the time.

why spend loads on a jacket you're going to carry most of the time.

by chance, as i'm currently between sizes, i've discovered that a waterproof that is a bit too big is the most comfortable. the larger size means there's more air inside to get damp so it takes longer to do so and the size means it billows a bit and thus vents all that nasty warmer wet air out of the jacket. so for comfort i find that's the best. or you may prefer a nice fit and no flappiness and just get wet inside quicker. lots of ventilation is the secret.

find a cheap one - it's not worth spending much on a membrane jacket unless you want specialist usage out of it simply because there really isn't that much difference between them.

contrary to anecdote and a lot of received wisdom the met office weather statistics do not support any opinion about it raining heavily all day or for even for prolonged periods. yes, it can happen but these instances are very much the exception and not the rule. it tends to rain intermittently - some of which may be heavy (rain or showers as i'm sure (?) are simply meteorological terms describing the type of clouds the water falls out of and "rain" can be just as showery as "showers") - and so something to haul on to keep the worst of the wet off is fine.

in warmer weather i wear a shirt rather than a base layer as i find a shirt to be the most flexible thing there is. a collar against the sun, roll the sleeves up or down (still allowing ventilation unlike a baselayer) and as much frontal ventilation as you like.

of course if you get too hot and you find it bothersome then a good way to control it is to simply slow down and stop generating so much heat. practice setting your pace to your preferred temperature level. it's not perfect but it sure goes a long way to maintaining comfort.

do most people who "run hot" actually run hot or do they simply get hot from exertion like everyone else does? i would think that if you genuinely "run hot" then your clothing choices will be deternmined solely by personal trial and error.

Also agree.

Over about 20°C anything more than a T-shirt and light trousers or shorts will probably be uncomfortable for most people (even the lightest windshirts). So if it starts to rain heavily in that situation nothing will be ideal and probably the most comfortable option is just to get wet (I would want an extra layer to put on when stopped though). The thought of putting on a clammy hard shell top and trousers is not appealing at those temps . Even putting on a full weight Paramo jacket and getting hot (but not clammy) sounds more comfortable than that.

It's true that the Paramo Alta II is relatively heavy compared to the lightest hard shells around. And I only put it on if I think I'll be wearing it all day. But it is of course entirely possible to put it in your pack!! It isn't like a bicycle or something, and is not that much heavier than the kind of shells normal people cart around e.g. the Berghaus Cornice  at 700g!!