Paramo Trousers

I've had a pair of Paramo Cascadas which I found to be too hot in all but the coldest conditions, hence they've gone and have been replaced with a pair of lightweight eVent overtrousers to use when the weather turns bad.  If the weather's bad when starting out then I'd likely wear them over thermals from the word go.

I considered a pair of quito trousers as a replacement (I have a quito jkt which is a nice piece of kit) but even trying them on in the shop two things became immediately obvious:

The first was that they were still very warm, too warm for year round use even as a trouser on it's own let alone over something else. For a winter walking trouser they'd be a good choice.

The second was that they were possibly the most "sex pesty" looking item of outdoor clothing I've ever seen.  It's hard to describe but the flat front, combined with the leathery look was just weird - however I realise you may be less shallow than me, most people are!

Horses for courses, as some get more affected by warmth than others.  I wear the Terras when it's dry, particularly around the summer, but for all other occasions, even in summer, wear the Velez (Cascadas for years before them).  Any of the Paramo trousers will have ventilation options if it gets warmer, and a good thing is rarely needing anything below in winter.

I've not had any problems in rain, but some will no doubt say that rain can be forced through the zips.  Even if that happened in extreme cases, the breathability and very quick drying-ness should outweigh any problem.

I wouldn't normally ever carry Paramo in my pack, but am now vaguely tempted by the Quito trousers for those summer days when you could get away with shorts most of the day.  If the "sex pesty" allegations are unfounded, they could be the perfect year-round option, but I've yet to see a pair in the flesh.

In my pack - one pair RAB Off Limits in Pertex. Very light but not let me down yet.

If it's raining at the start, or imminent, I'd put on the old faithful gore tex over-trousers (sometimes with gaiters). Don't nothing get through them.

I've not used a poncho, but what I envisage and what I hear about them both say the same thing: in vertical stair-rods, excellent, in wind-powered "traditional British mountain rain" an entertaining exercise in pretending you're a sailing boat.  Umbrellas along the same lines: great if it's just raining, not so great if it's blowing a hoolie too.

Can anyone rate a pair of really waterproof overtrousers that are cheap and light?

Not especially.  I find mine (ME Drilite ones) leak through the full side zips, but I'm more interested in full side zips than leaks because I want them for skiing and what I wear underneath can usually cope with leaks through zips (Tracksters in summer, which dry out as fast as they get wet, or soft shell trews or sloppets that can cope with the rate of leakage okay anyway).  So despite the leaks I'm actually very pleased with them.  But for better waterproofing full zips are Not Your Friends.  Beyond that, anything with a good hydrostatic head will keep out the rain but over a day's deluge it tends to find its way in through the neck of the jacket and around the hems and wick around through inner layers.  But I usually find I'm damp rather than soaking, and close enough to dry that my body heat will dry my stuff as I cook tea.  Anything that's still wet at bed-time comes off, and back on the next day so it either dries out on me or keeps a spare dry base layer for me in the bag.

Pete.

 If you can nearly get away with just the terras. maybe Montane featherlight pants?

 (pertex) as I use them a lot.

 this years TGO challenge was the wettest and windiest in 30 years and I used this combo with rab powerstretch tights. I had my berghaus paclites with me for a few days but didnt wear  them, and posted them home. the type of trousers/tights are very important as  is  proofing waterproofs correctly

Warhippo I have an Equinox poncho/tarp which works fine and is surprisingly warm. Wind is an issue so Upland in wet and windy weather is a bit flappy, need a belt or a bit of cord.

My use depends on the conditions and how light I want to go. I noticed on a french trip the locals seemed to use them a lot. I met a group all using them thought I was meeting a load of monks.

As something to throw on to keep dry they work and you can do away with rain pants and pack cover. They can wet out at the shoulders where they touch and under the backpack straps, but other stuff does that.

I've used old parampo cascada? trousers since 1992. They are hot, but can be vented up to mid thigh - though with the vents open, they (and the wearer) looks pretty odd. They actually look less strange rolled up above the knee, but again it isn't a look that everyone would go for.

Recently I've moved to using montane featherlight pants, which are not waterproof, but dry bloody quickly. Mainly because my main use is in my cycle commute (about an hour each way) and proofec featherlight pants over proofed tracksters keep me pretty dry for that length of time, although it actually seems as if I am emulating some of the paramo approach but with the liner not being directional.

Warhippo wrote (see)

I'm not concerned about breathability - if it's raining that hard, not much is going to be breathable anyway.

I think you are mistaken not to be concerned - if you prefer the 'breathabilty of a softshell upper layer, you must be aware of the advantages of a similar lower layer.

for heavy rain with occasional short intervals of light/no rain - as happens just as often in the real world as continuous rain, good breathability makes all the difference to all day comfort.

Yes, I get damp legs occasionally through condensation when working hard, but with good breathability, and suitable underlayer (not Kiwis or other cotton heavy stuff) get dry again inside fairly easily. With less breathability you don't.  Simple as that. In cold wet weather this makes a lot of difference to morale.

I use Event O/Ts with 3/4 zips, (Rab Bergens).  They are way more comfortable (re condensation) in  than my old Goretex O/Ts. and a world away in comfort from my summer O/Ts (Golite Reed), which though much thinner  are hotter to wear funnily enough due to lack of breathability and venting.  (I take the latter for 'just in case' use)

I would next go for Montane Atomics - which have longer zips.

 I would be tempted get a pair of Velez Trousers for cooler times but they are currently only available in a length which is a little too short for me.

I make a decision based on the forecast paramo zip-offs if the forecast is rain or mixed, montane terra's otherwise. 

I don't find the paramo trousers any less comfortable heat wise than a trouser/overtrouser combo and much easier to ventilate plus much less sweaty.

For summer rain when it is not cold anyway I don't bother and just rely on the Montane Terra's.

Steve D

I don't find the paramo trousers any less comfortable heat wise than a trouser/overtrouser combo and much easier to ventilate plus much less sweaty.

I'd usually be wearing Tracksters under O-Ts, and compared to the Paramo pump liner those are lighter, stretchier and decoupled from the outer layer, so I find it's better freedom of movement.  Ease of ventilation depends on the O-Ts: mine have twin ended full side zips so they're easy to ventilate, plus of course I can take the outers off altogether if the rain eases off.

I despise overtrousers, but baggy trousers with a relatively heavy lining don't really do it for me either, and the O-Ts come off when the rain does.  Horses for courses though: plenty of other folk hate Tracksters...

Pete.