Personal Locator Beacons

I hope there isn't another thread on this, but as I couldn't find one here goes...

Just came across this link on the MWIS site:

Link goes to www.grough.co.uk

So from tomorrow the kind people at offcom will allow the use of PLBs on the mountains and hills of the UK.  I wonder if there will be many examples of people misusing them.  Come to think of it, I wonder what their definition of an emergency on a mountain or hill might be?

 Anyone know more about this, or have any thoughts on the gadgets?  Seemingly it's a great thing isn't it?  Anyone have it on their kit list?

At £270 it's not likely that everyone will be have them, but I'll be interested to see if the devices are used responsibly.

no big deal then?

just another crafty one to attract gear-freaks like myself perhaps...?

I met someone years back who carried  one illegally arguing his life was more important than breaking the law & he'd rather face the consequences than snuff it.  He was also dead set against low viz clothing on the hill.  As someone who's still struggling with the now common sense practice of taking a mobile phone on the hill it's not something that rests easy with me although deep down I guess I agree with his reasoning to some extent & I know my family would. 

Does it take the edge off the adventure?  Does it engender a lack of respect for mountaincraft?

Are these going to be contract or subscription based or free to use?  Does that have any implications for the rescue services?

According to what I've read, there is to be no subscriptions services.  Not too sure whether there will be a service charge?  Perhaps they won't winch you onto the chopper unless you have your debit card. ha ha 

I think we all break the rules now and then to ensure we look after ourselves, don't we?

I want one of these PLBs anyways, simply becasue they're bright yellow and have a flashing light!

Well if you've got a phone signal then sure, although you don't need anything beyond the phone to use that

But for some of the more obscure parts of the country thats far from certain. (Or certain not to work.). Hence maybe PLBs (or Spot which uses satelites too.).

Probably only potentially relevant for chunks of Scotland, although I don't know.

ryedubs wrote (see)

So from tomorrow the kind people at offcom will allow the use of PLBs on the mountains and hills of the UK.  I wonder if there will be many examples of people misusing them.  Come to think of it, I wonder what their definition of an emergency on a mountain or hill might be?

Anyone know more about this, or have any thoughts on the gadgets?  Seemingly it's a great thing isn't it?  Anyone have it on their kit list?

At £270 it's not likely that everyone will be have them, but I'll be interested to see if the devices are used responsibly.

There has been at least one occurrence of accidental misuse in the states, where someone was given a PLB as a present and confused it with an avalanche transceiver. This meant they activated it frequently, but never for quite long enough to actually locate them. Local mountain rescue folk were not entirely happy about the whole affair.

You're supposed to register your PLB so it is clear whose beacon has been triggered; not sure where the law stands on the sale or activation of unregistered ones. If nothing else, this provides a means for apportioning blame for frivolous callouts.

At £200+ for a bit of gear with no immediate use or application (compared to, say, a nice GPS or a fancy new rain shell), takeup will be limited to at least moderately sensible and serious people. I don't see prices plummetting any time soon, given that PLB technology has been around for a while, and is used for sea rescue worldwide and land rescue in many areas.

Rosswm wrote (see)

Does it take the edge off the adventure?  Does it engender a lack of respect for mountaincraft?

Have you ever used crampons? Do they take the edge off the adventure? How about an avalanche transceiver? Is there a technology-level cutoff point where safety equipment makes things 'too safe'?

How about weather forecasts?

Serriadh wrote (see)

Have you ever used crampons? Do they take the edge off the adventure? How about an avalanche transceiver? Is there a technology-level cutoff point where safety equipment makes things 'too safe'?

How about weather forecasts?

 Yes. No. No. Dunno - that's my dilema.  Weather forecasts are useful.

Crampons & to an extent weather forecasts require a level of knowledge & skill to use effectively.  

The safety net of a bit of kit that just needs a button pressing & aid will come your way - especially for use in the UK?  Dunno.  

I see the point & I've heard the 'what value do you put on a life' arguments but it doesn't rest easy with me.  

I'd be interested in the perspective of the rescue services re recreational hill use.

As I mentioned earlier I struggle to remember to carry a mobile phone.  Had one for years with work but never carried it on the hill.  I was admonished a while back (not here)  as being irresponsible for not taking one which took me aback a little as I'd been going on the hill for years prior to the mobile phone being commonplace. 

Rosswm wrote (see)

The safety net of a bit of kit that just needs a button pressing & aid will come your way - especially for use in the UK?  Dunno.  

I see the point & I've heard the 'what value do you put on a life' arguments but it doesn't rest easy with me.  

I'd be interested in the perspective of the rescue services re recreational hill use.

As I mentioned earlier I struggle to remember to carry a mobile phone.  Had one for years with work but never carried it on the hill.  I was admonished a while back (not here)  as being irresponsible for not taking one which took me aback a little as I'd been going on the hill for years prior to the mobile phone being commonplace. 

I always carry a mobile phone so I know what time it is. I haven't worn a watch for years, and the battery life of my phone vastly exceeds that of my GPS. By way of a bonus, I can use it to makes calls, but that never happens very often.

I suspect that having a magic rescue button will increase the number of unnecessary callouts, but not by a whole lot... mobile phone coverage is pretty good these days, so muppets are already only a few buttonpresses away from a helicopter ride. So long as a suitably penalty is enforced for clearly frivolous use of a PLB (how about a restraining order; no travelling more than 100m from a tarmac covered public right of way with mobile coverage for a year? that'll learn em) and getting hold of kit without handing over details is hard, the problem should be minimal.

Irresponsibility is in the eye of the beholder. I for one would not wish to be lying in a heap at the bottom of a scramble with various colours and flavours of probably-lethal-soon injury, knowing that if I'd had tried, tested and cheaply available kit I wouldn't have to die; it would be embarassing.

UKJeeper wrote (see)

I think if i was going to drop nearly £300 on a satellite locator device, i'd prefer to get my moneys worth. Which is why the SPOT system appeals to me much more than a straight 'one use' ELP. It can summon help if you need it, which will hopefully be never, but can also used as other things, regularly broadcasting your location, texting updates, letting family/friends know you're fine, etc.

A quick few notes on the benefits of 406mhz COSPAS-SARSAT PLBs vs Globalstar SPOT trackers, by no means exhaustive:

• A PLB will have better worldwide coverage (not that such a thing will matter to most users)
• It will do a much better job of getting a signal out of difficult locations because its lower frequency signal is better at penetrating obstacles and I believe it uses a higher transmit power, too.
• PLB transmissions are also useful as a homing target on their own, even without a GPS location sent with them so they're still pretty useful even in the absense of a GPS lock. I don't think SPOT transmissions can be homed in on this way.
• PLB emergency transmissions can be continued for a longer period of time than SPOT transmissions.
• PLBs don't generally have an ongoing cost beyond getting the batteries replaced every few years.
• PLBs generally seen to have been built to some fairly rigorous standards so there should be fewer concerns about them becoming inoperable due to damage.
• There should be far fewer worries about the batteries running out, even on a long trip.

Having said all that: a SPOT is probably much more useful for the vast majority of users for exactly the reasons you've stated!

The thing with spot is that annual subscription charge. If you're using the location beacons etc then fine its maybe worth it. But if thinking if something to be hopefully never used? It gets rather expensive quite fast.

Somethnig intriguing on spots website - spot connect - seemingly some sort of bluetooth connected adaptor to turn a normal mobile into some sort of sattelite phone.

iirc Renting sattelite phones another relatively plausible option actually.

At the end of the day these gadgets are your choice to operate if you choose to spend the cash on them. Most probably you'd never use them anyway.

Alternative viewpoint is perhaps with knowledge, experience and good judgement you never get into serious trouble that a mobile phone, whistle and friends can't get you out of. All the incidents I have experienced in the hills could and mostly were solved by the people around the victim or the victim himself. One I observed the rescue of was up Wasdale way on a crag on the right up to Styhead. A climber had fallen and used his whistle to get attention. Someone replied then ran down to the pub and called in MRT. No mobiles were around then and certainly no PLBs. What did we do back then? We relied on those around us more or on ourselves not gadgets. I'm not saying we shouldn't have all the kitin the world that COULD save our lives in certain situations. I am just saying we should not get ourselves into those freak situations. I've been walking in the hills and remote areas around UK both man and boy for 35-36 years without PLBs without dying or being seriously injured (only injury of note was one broken hand).

I choose to spend the £270 on getting into the hills not trying to get myself out of the hills IF I get injured beyond self help or help of others around me. You make your decision based on worth of the kit to you.