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Items on the CMMonline.co.uk website

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James Bloor
19/10/2001 at 15:47

Hi there,

Firstly, let me introduce myself. My name is James Bloor and I am the Marketing Manager at Castle Mountain & Moor, Nottingham.

2 months ago we launched our website at *** www.cmmonline.co.uk *** and are gradually building up the number of items available on it. We currently stock over 7,000 lines of products in our store, and with just over 1,000 available on the site you can see we have got a long way to go!

The aim of this post is to find out what the typical outdoor enthusiast would like to see more of on the net. If you check out our site, you will see that you will struggle to find your gear cheaper anywhere else - but with 'only' 1,000 lines currently available, the choice is not immense.

Therefore, if everyone could post on here what type of clothing, equipment, etc we shall endeavour to build up those sections of our site as a priority.

I look forward to you replies,

James Bloor.
Sally Hotchkin 1
19/10/2001 at 16:22
James. Thanks for the sales pitch.

You might want to start by looking at another thread 'Found Any Good Web Bargains?' that has been running for a while here. This might give you some idea about what people have found and are willing to pay for.
Drew
20/10/2001 at 19:56
I think that a wide range of qualities is what I am looking for as much as anything else. I like to buy stuff from somewhere where they sell top of the range models, but will probably personally buy something a little lower in price... usually.

There are the obvious area's suck as tents, which could do with some improving, but if you look at the member reviews then that'll be a good idea of what the users have thought of them. Then you could decide to stock them or not.


Oh and BTW, I always like a place to stock Mountain Hardware. Call me shallow if you will, but it makes a place seem so much better, that they have equipment which sits at Everest camp 5 in their shop.
Ms. Mjausson
22/10/2001 at 11:54
Thanks for asking, James. At this time of year I'm looking at things like gloves, hats and scarves. You've got the gloves but the hat section is empty and a search for "neck gaiter" returned no results. Since the p&p is 4 UKP I'm afraid I won't shop from you since I can't get all the things I want. It's a shame though because you are one of the few who stock women's windproof fleece gloves that are not black.

Generally speaking, visitors often use small ticket items to test a new store to see if they actually deliver before buying something more expensive from them. Thinking ahead to Christmas, you're also more likely to shift many small items (<25 UKP) rather than tents and goretex jackets. Think gift ideas. That also means that your guidebook and maps section would be a good candidate for filling.

You should be aware that having sections that contain nothing leave visitors with a feeling of having been cheated if they click on them. From a customer relations point of view it's much better to start out with just a few sections and then populate the menus as you go along.

--Mjausson (who does this for a living)
Sally Hotchkin 1
22/10/2001 at 12:04
Sales pitch 2? ;-)
Ms. Mjausson
22/10/2001 at 12:24
You guys can't afford me. ;)
--Mjausson
Jon Doran
22/10/2001 at 13:27
On similar lines, if one or some of the gear retailers who use the site were to come up with some special deals for OUTDOORSmagic members, what sort of thing would you like to see included?

Clothing? Equipment? Small things? Big things? Consumables? Tents? Camping type equipment? End of line stuff at big discount etc.

What do you all think?

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

SteveP
22/10/2001 at 13:42
<off topic rant>

I kind of wonder about some of the high street based shops that stock Mountain Hardware, Lowe Alpine + LifeSystems stuff, alongside a bunch of much, much cheaper gear.

I'm not knocking the kit (in fact it is all rather good), but it often appears that they are bandwagon-jumping, rather than using their personal experience to put together a good range of stock to cover all customers.

If I was being really critical, then I'd say they were just trying to shift stock as fast as possible, rather than treating me as an individual and sorting me out whatever products would be suitable.

I'm a pretty uninspiring customer to deal with, as I tend to know what model, size, colour I want immediately - I used to work in a "well known outdoor gear shop" where the enjoyment came from listening and talking to customers that a) had a clue and b) took onboard your judgement about gear that you had used.

I often got the impression that you could make more money if you targetted greener people with a bit of money (e.g. by telling them you really need this Everest spec jacket). Fortunately, our management were very aware that we'd do better by repeat sales and word-of-mouth recommendation, so it was a happy time.
Rob Sutherland
22/10/2001 at 13:50
Good gear at good prices would do me - especially if you could factor in free postage!

In reply to Jon - end of line stuff at big discounts would get my vote I think. I tend to get as much gear as I can in that way as it does the job perfectly well but saves me a small fortune! Any chance of sourcing some cheap Alpine Raptors :-)
neil rich
22/10/2001 at 14:00
James
I echo the messages of Mjausson and Jon
I'm much more likely to risk £20 or £30 (or less) on an untried web supplier, even one with a high streeet name.
depending on the service recieved then I might part with a couple of hundred for tent, jacket or whatever.
Any 'offers' would have to be very substantial savings to make me jump in cold.
Also postage and packing costs need to be reasonable otherwise they eat up any savings you might have made.
A recent purchase of mine had £3 added for p&p which turned out to be an A4 brown envelope and a 45p stamp.
Somebody said
"You only get one chance to make a First Impression"
it's true
Ms. Mjausson
22/10/2001 at 14:47
Jon,
I'd like something with the outdoorsmagic logo on it. A waterproof baseball cap for instance. Maybe a maglite. Possibly a day pack. How about a nice and fleecy contoured headband? Anything over 20 UKP I wouldn't even consider.
--Mjausson
BTW you guys need a tagline
Jon Doran
22/10/2001 at 16:36
Nice idea. BIKEmagic has/had its own cycling tops and baseball caps - very tasteful ones I might add too.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Jon Doran
22/10/2001 at 16:43
'When the outdoors gets magic, the magic gets tragic'? That sort of thing?

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Orange Alex Ford
22/10/2001 at 19:02
How about something like:

"OUTDOORSmagic - the total online Outdoors action resource"

It's got a bit of a ring to it, but it does sound a bit familiar...
Orange Alex Ford
22/10/2001 at 19:25
To answer your other question Jon, I'd like to see end of line bargains...cos that's when I'm more likely to get some stuff!

Oh! and post and packing charges really get on my wick! As an aside I use CDWOW to buy my CD's online, as they don't have a p&p charge, they may have slightly less choice, but at £8.99 and no postage it's my fave place to shop. Other online retailers should take note.
James Bloor
22/10/2001 at 19:48

I also buy my cd's from cdwow, and they ship from Hong Kong (I think).

The reason they can get away with not charging p&p is that cd's are worth very little, and no signature is required at the customers end.

With outdoor clothing, etc, this is clearly not the case. Firstly, the gear is expensive stuff, and secondly their is much more fraud in this industry so a signature is generally required from the person who made the order.

This is something that we have looked into at great depth, but at the end of the day, it is a question of whether you want to pay a higher price for a product (with the postage cost incorporated into that price), or a lower price for the item with postage on top.

We prefer the second option …
Clive Clasby (Old Git)
22/10/2001 at 20:20
Having just got loads of free gear off Arktis for the forthcoming.......
Put some of their stuff on your website!
www.arktisltd.co.uk
it is brilliant especially the pile/pertex stuff and the stowaway shirt I just tried on my new mammoth shirt and nearly boiled!
Orange Alex Ford
22/10/2001 at 22:50
James you have raised several points...

1. If I want to order something of relatively small value then why should I pay the same P&P as someone ordering a lot more? You will lose a customer if I have to pay (say) £3 for postage of an item that quite frankly isn't going to have that much of a discount over the high street price.

2. Your policy only works out for the buyers of several big items at once...i.e. tent AND Goretex AND Boots. But if this is the case the retiler often then says that if the purchase is over a certain total then the p&p is free! Hence the retailer must be able to absorb the price of the postage.

At the end of the day as Neil said in another thread..."honesty is the best policy" IF you are honest enough to say that your prices are a smidge higher for each item and then not add the old p&p surcharge then I'd be more likely to shop from you.

BUT the other point that follows from this is the profits that the 'big' retailers (Cotswolds and F&T, for instance) must be making from the mail/web orders. They are never partucularly discounted and still charge p&p.

I guess the moral to this is the fact that I now tend to try and buy from small independant retailers who often have lots of experience AND are often willing to discout the price a little if you ask nicely.
James Bloor
23/10/2001 at 09:40
Fair enough Alex, but do you think that the 'big' retailers set out to make a profit on postage?

I think they simply try and break-even, and that means charging an average price to the majority of customers. Some will get away with being under charged and feel they have got a bargain, others will think they have been over-charged (and maybe rightly so).

You mentioned Cotswold and F&T as stores that you feel make profits on postage, but you have to remember that they have shop overheads to cover as well. Purely online companies like 9feet thought they could get away with not charging postage, by having their own despatch teams, but what has happened to them in recent months explains why other companies are weary of treading the same path.

At CMMonline, we only have a couple of years' experience at Mail Order, and only 2 months of E-Commerce - and are therefore constantly reviewing postage costs. We recently shipped a parcel to Greece that cost us £29 to send … we only charged £8 postage. On the other hand, a pair of gloves to Peterborough costs £2.25 … which we charged £4 for.

Your comments give us a good insight into how people perceive online stores, and we thank you for your feedback.

I hope this puts across the point of view of the retailer a bit clearer.
Orange Alex Ford
23/10/2001 at 10:13
I see where you are comming from, but I do feel that the majority of the time, most retailers are making profits on p&p.

Here's a radical idea why not just charge the customer for the actual cost of the postage! That way when a parcel turns up at my door and I see that it's cost the company £3 to post it and that I paid £3 for the p&p.

BUT, I dispute your arguement about the Cotswolds and F&T...the prices of goods in the shops should cover the overheads of having the shops! Why should an online customer pay for a shop that he's never going to visit???
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