Which backpack for camping??

Can anyone recommend a good backpack suitable for weekend camping in the UK. What features should I be looking for? I have a budget of £100 and have been looking at the Lowe Alpine Skyline & Appalachian.

The Karrimor Bobcat. It is only about £60 and it is 60 litres. Plenty of space in it. Plenty of features, and it's Karrimor, so therefore good quality. Well, it's what I would recommend, as some1 who works in an outdoor shop. I reckon thats the 1 U want. Cos U'll have some spare cash, for a nice little something extra.

Working in an outdoors shop is fine but have you actually used what you recommend?
--Mjausson

I can recommend my 65lts Vango sack, I think it's the Denali. Adjustable, comfortable, stacks of room, comes with integral waterproof cover and usual attachments. Had it a few years now, can't remember how much i paid for it, think about £60-70 quid.

I can reccommend the same Vango sac. i find it very comfortable. I also have a Lowe Crossbow 50Lt sac (around £80 I think) which I find good too.
Whatever you go for, try loads first to find the best for you. Even better if you can get some weight in them in the shop.

I have an elderly Skyline, which I can recommend for VFM and durability. For me, its useful features are:

- 2 compartments, so you can separate wet and dry stuff
- 2nd compartment can be zipped out
- large side pockets for maps, water, etc
- bellow straps to compress a small load
- side pockets can be strapped down for a slim profile if necessary
- comfortable padded belt
- good balance when full
- all compartments easy to access quickly
- side pockets for poles

Potentially useful features my Skyline doesn't have include:
- chest strap for more secure carrying on rough ground
- loops on front of shoulder straps to attach water, compass, etc
- adjustable volume/floating lid
- ventilating back system (not 100% convinced these actually work, though)

But don't get more features than you personally need - they just add weight and cost.

But it really comes down to what fits you best and feels most comfortable, so try lots. A good fit transfers a lot of the weight to your hips, isn't unstable when fully loaded, doesn't have slipping straps, and allows you to move your head.

I thought that Karrimor re-released the Panther series of rucksacs. If i'm wrong then i'll beat myself with birch twigs till i bleed, if not it's far and away the best budget rucksac out there. Especialy the 75l version, you can strap your world to it and it's still comfortable, i know because i've used one for about 8-9 years.

I've used a Lowe Skyline and it's an excellent pack for the money, but it's key to try the pack out with a decent load in the back - people vary, packs vary, it's a bit like a relationship. David's saved from the birch twig beating btw, the Panther's in the Karrimor range again in various forms.

Jon

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OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

Definitely Lowe Alpine Skyline. I work in a outdoors shop too, and listen to customer feedback. Karrimors are poorly made and designed - we have many returns. LA's are indestructable - look at all the ancient Lowe Alpine packs you still see going strong, particulary on American tourists.

The Panther has a horrid, nearly unpadded backsystem and a pathetic waistbelt. It might be cheap, but an umcomfortable pack will put you off walking so AVOID!

New Skylines have the superb Aircooled Backsystem, giving a close, cool padded fit. Usually, it is very comfy on people. I use a Frontier myself, and find it's similar back system (it adjusts, the Skyline doesn't, but the Skyline back length fits most people and when it does it's great) very comfy.

Top Tips: Loosen all straps and load up sack. I use 5ltr cans of Fabsil. Then put sac on. Thighten waistbelt firmly, then pull on shoulder straps. This will transmit as much weight as possible through your hips to your legs, not through your shoulders and back. Then do up the chest strap, it's elasticated (so you can still breath) but the shoulder straps will roll off and not fit properly without it. Look at yourself sideways in a mirror. Do the shoulder straps follow the curve of your shoulders? Adjust the top tension straps to make sure it does, and not hang off the back or front. Does the hip belt rest on top of your hips? If not, you'll probably need an adjusting back as on the Appalachian.

The Vango sac is good too but I've less experience with it. Try both on and pick the comfiest.

Ropes are also good for trial loadings. Just for information, Lowe also make an ND women's specific version of the Skyline which is being tested - by a woman naturally - andll be reviewed on the site in the next month or so.

As far as adjustment goes, also note that lots of sacks use alloy staves to shape the back to fit. You can take these out and rebend them so that they follow the contours of your back more closely - often you need a more exagerated curve than you'd think, but it can make a huge difference to comfort.

I dragged a Lowe Liberty round S America for almost a year a while back and it emerged grubby but unbroken which was pretty impressive.

Jon

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OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

I have used a women's specific Berghaus one (can't remember model) for 7 years now and although it's been robust, I have not been impressed with the back system.

You adjust it by releasing a cathc and sliding a top plate like piece and a bottom plate like piece together to the lower setttings, then you do it back up again. As the adjustment is internal to the sack it reduces the volume as you do it. This makes sense from the point of view that smaller people should maybe carry less stuff, but when walking in Corsica I found that it was fairly unstable. When compressed the design was sub-optimal so I'll look for something where the adjustment doesn't affect the pack shape next time.

Yes I have tied it. Yes it was good. No I have never had a Karrimor returned. I have only ever, EVER, heard one complaint about Karrimor and that was a 30 year old bag, where the seam had just started to go. I never use NEthing except karrimor. Well I test things for the shop (which is the best bit) and I have tried all sorts of wierd and wonderful things. From karrimor (my personal favourite, and the shops favourite), all the way through to the tacky stuff that Gelert come out with. I can say that i have used many many bags, and I will always, always, ALWAYS, come back to karrimor, and more specifically, the Jaguar. It is a class bag, but for £150 it's not to be purchased too regularly. I hope that u get the bag which fits, suits, and is best for U and ure purpose. I personally would always recommend Karrimor, but each to their own.

BTW. the bloke with the 30 year old Karrimor, they offered to send the rep up to rethread it for him. he refused so they agve him £20 for a new bag. Not necasserily a Karrimor. It was NEway. He loves Karrimor, nearly as much as me!

Andrew Withey

This is the first time I have used a forum and I'm pleasently surprised about the amount of reply's I have received already. It shows that everyone here really loves the outdoors. Cheers!!

Gareth, glad it's been useful - regarding the whole debate about Karrimor reliability and durability. Well, they definitely went through a phase when build quality wasn't as good as it might have been and my Alpiniste 55 - about ten years old now - was one of the victims. Mainly stuff like stitching unravelling in crucial areas, minor straps coming off etc. It was all repaired under the life time warranty.

The trouble with stuff like that is that once a brand gets a reputation, it tends to stick. It's the same with Helly and their thermals. Everyone assumes that Lifa still smells bad because it used to, hence the 'Smelly Helly' tag, but the latest version doesn't. I honestly don't know how reliable or not the latest Karrimor packs are. Nothing we've had on test has given us any problems at all, but then one of the problems with testing lots of different products is that we rarely have the opportunity to use them for more than a few months at a time, whereas a normal owner will be in it for the long term.

It means that site tests can't always comment fairly on durability, so unless we have really given something a serious thrashing, we don't. The good news is that there is an answer and we'll have it in the relatively near future. It's already operational on our mountain biking site www.bikemagic.com and it's a detailed consumer review system so that site members can contribute their own impressions of the gear and clothing they use week after week.

If you want to know how it'll work, take a look at the BIKEmagic version:

http://www.bikemagic.com/review/review.asp

I reckon it's going to be dead useful, but if you have time, take a look and tell me what you think.

Jon

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OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

The main problem with consumer reviews in general is that people tend to do a bit of research and apply a bit of thought before shelling out £££. The result is a high rating, because their purchases suit their own needs. It doesn't follow that they'll suit everyone equally well. No amount of praise will convince me that I need a wire-stiffened peak, or that Salomon boots fit my feet.

The advantages/disadvantages format of the Bikemagic reviews seems to have encouraged a a bit more objectivity, and less of the 'it's great!' approach, which helps.

BTW - Interesting to see that the cheapest Bikemagician-reviewed socks are £19.99. Hadn't realised they were such a wealthy lot. And, looking at the £3,500 bike, maybe the section needs moderating.

We reckon that UK consumers tend to be a bit more objective than the US equivalent - check out mtbr.com for evidence of that one. It's always going to be swings and roundabouts though, the big strength of thorough consumer reviews is that some of them are based on longer-term use than most testers can physically manage.

In time you'll be able to rate reviews for usefulness and the ones that come out as most useful will come to the top, which will hopefully mean that the best ones are also the most accessible.

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OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

As some1 who works in an outdoor shop, I know as well as NE1 (cos I do hike also) that the only good kit is the kit that fits U, feels nice, and is adequate 4 ure purpose. If it doesn't fit those criteria, then it's pants. If Salomon boots don't fit, and the only ones which do R HiTech, then HiTech R gonna have 2B amazing. It's just what U wanna wear, and can afford 2 wear. Thats all there is to it.

...And sometimes if it does fit those criteria it's still pants. Lowe Alpine dryflow ones, for instance. :-)

Back to the original question, the LA Appalachian has a bit of a wierd back system, with a very big lumbar pad. Some people like it (My wife's got one, she rates it very highly), others don't (I tried one on and found it was really quite uncomfortable when loaded).

The Karrimor SA back system is the most comfortable I've carried, but quite unstable in my experience. I used to have a Jaguar S75, which was OK for walking, (although the stitching went on the compartment divider eventually) but a complete write-off for climbing/scrambling, as the pack swings around too much.
I replaced it with a TNF Snow Leopard which is a bit too far the other way - solid as a rock but not the most comfortable with a big load. I suppose Karrimor might have improved the stability since I bought my Jaguar though.

Chris

p.s.

- Any
- One
- You
- For
- To
- Be

There, now I've written them out for you, you can cut and paste them into your text instead of pretending to be sending a text message.

grrr...rant...etc....

Gd 4U Xrs!

Xrs ? Ex-er-s ?

Shades of "people called romanes they go the house", but I think you mean txtrs, unless you pronounce capital X very unusually.