Bikers 'Hijack' Trespass Anniversary

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05/04/2002 at 12:12
So, Peak District mountain bikers are going to stage what seems to be an illegal ride on the 70th anniversary of the original Kinder Trespass. What do you reckon, do they have a case or are there enough bridleways already? What would the original 1932 Kinder trespassers make of mountain biking off road do you think?

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

05/04/2002 at 12:25
errrrrrmmmm, well, a difficult one this and one that stirs up loads of emotions from both sides. Here's my take on it.

On the bikers side: Yeah, they have as much right to access the countryside as anyone else...They don't pollute and cause a similar ammout of erosion/damage to paths as walkers do. I don't bike much, but I have in the past and I can see the reason for doing it. The adreneline, speed and excitement are superb on downhill sections.

But on the walkers side: I'm afriad that not all bikers are careful when they ride. If I am taking the kids and the dog on a walk, and we are on a bridleway then I know that and I know that there is a greater chance of bikers about. So for the safety of all of them (kids, dog and bikers) I keep the kids and the dog close...reminding them to be carefull of bikes and bikers...not to get in their way...watch out for them sort of thing, 'cos a lot of the excitement in biking is the speed on downhill sections. I'd like to think that I was being considerate to the bikers...

But, if I'm on a foot path, then the kids can wander ahead and the dog can be off her lead (as long as there are no other dogs/farm stock about), and they should be able to freely enjoy the path without the fear of a biker coming speeding past.

At the end of the day, and I know I sound like a member of the Ramblers Association (WHICH I AM NOT) but they are footpaths. They are meant for pedestrians and not for vehicles...and remember a bike is a vehicle.
05/04/2002 at 12:34
What annoys me is not so much the lovely, gorgeous, mouth-watering singletrack footpaths I see everywhere I turn that I can't ride on, I accept that as a safety thing as Alex mentions. What bugs me are the hundreds of massive, big-enough-to-take-a-truck-down, doubletracks which are graded as footpaths.

Ridiculous.
05/04/2002 at 13:38
Yes bikers do have a case. compaire th amout of bridelways around the peaks with the numbers of foot paths. its about 1bridelway:10 footpaths isn't it??
Si
05/04/2002 at 13:58
Yet again its a case of a small minority ruining it for everyone. If a couple of MTB'ers behave irresponsibly then it gives all MTB'ers a bad name. Same with inconsiderate walkers.

I imagine that 4X4 drivers feel the same as Steve D when they see tracks that are big enough for their vehicles! This may discourage local authorities (or whoever is in charge of grading tracks etc) from regrading paths for fear that it sets a precedent.

I appreciate that the arguments are very different for 4x4s and MTB's, but since when has reason inteferred with policy on this sort of thing?

Si(C)
05/04/2002 at 17:20
I have to say I'd enjoy a jaunt around Kinder on the bike Jon, but only limited sections are viable as "horseable" bridleways, horses up there would be a menace, and in any case would struggle to get up, (Jacobs ladder? Grindsbrook???) So the horse brigade are unlikely to be in favour. That said, the vast majority of over eroded paths are over eroded because of regulations sending every bike, motorbike and horse down the same narrow route alongside the walkers. I could come up with my own definitive map of "sensible" trails for the bikes, but I'd ideall like the whole of the national parks to be declared open country and fair game to horsers and bikers. New routes would soon appear where walkers go, leaving many more miles of bikeable tracks and reducing pressure on the current, horribly restricted, network. Getting walkers out of the "bloody biker" mindset when someone rides withoutg attention to others and into a "bloddy idiot" mindset instead is very very difficult. We can all do little things, as riders or as walkers, either to think a little more about other groups or simply to present ourselves better as bikers (like not discarding inner tubes about the place) chatting to bikers/walkers when you meet makes a big difference, and the mood on the hills is noticeably friendlier towards bikers compared to 5 years back.

The main problem as ever is the RA's stubborn unwillingness to bow to any changes which don't directly benefit them, ramblers mass protests were a great step forward, but MTB's on footpaths are unwanted nature wrecking nightmares, not true and not fair, and as more of us realise the enjoyment to be had from both, the less the view that wheels=bad will prevail. In ten years we'll be biking where we want, I hope, and ALL groups will benefit, whether they know it yet or not.
05/04/2002 at 20:06
Unfortunately David I don't agree with you...purely, on dare I say it, safety grounds.

As a parent it is worrying enough when my kids go out walking along the pavements in the street...it'd be plainly awfull for me to have that same fear when out walking along footpaths in the countryside and up among the mountains.

David, I'm sure that you are carefull and concientious and all good things, but not everyone else is, walkers as well as bikers. Bikes don't belong on footpaths for just that reason.

There you go, footpaths are for walkers. Bridleways are for everone, but at least the walkers know that there might be bikes on the bridleways. Lets keep it that way.

I do simply fail to see how bikers on footpaths will benifit walkers...and if that's what it's gonna be like in 10 years...I don't wanna be walking then.
05/04/2002 at 20:07
Sorry I didn't mean for that to be quite so patronising...It wasn't meant to be! (Oh and sorry for calling you David, Dave)
05/04/2002 at 22:27
Can I point out that the RA (or as it was then the National Council of Ramblers' Federations ) opposed the Mass Trespass so any increases in access due to them are nothing to do with the RA.

The main problem for riders is that there is no big campaigning body for MTB'rs to coordinate a campaign, whether or not that includes trespassing.

I've very rarely come across any unpleasent riders and in terms of inconvenience a nicely organised 50 person RA walk is likely to cause me far more anoyance than someone on a bike. I move over for faster walkers and fell runners who often head downhill apparently out of control so I can't see why i shouldn't give way to responsible MTB'rs.

Re the footpath/ridleway issue perhaps a further classification could be added for routes suitable for bikes and not for horses.
05/04/2002 at 23:46
I too have never met an unpleasant bike rider...but I have met plenty of unpleasant ramblers!

For instance, I live close to Cannock Chase, where I take the dog and kids a lot. It's a popular walking AND biking area...I have no trouble with the bikes being there on the numerous bridleways that criss-cross the place. Last Sunday I came across a branch which had "fallen" across the path. Obviously it had been placed there by the walker to stop/slow bikes down along this particular stretch of the bridleway. Of course I moved it. But it's an example of a sort of behaviour that is totally unacceptable.

There is a danger of walkers stereotyping all bikers as bad, and bikers doing the same about walkers. There ARE good and bad of both.

There must be room for give and take on this issue from both sides, but I'm afraid that bikes on a lot of footpaths would be bad! Similarly some walkers shouldn't be on bridleways...
06/04/2002 at 00:04
Some walkers...

...slow slow
...tap tap tap
...five abreast and you can't get past
...'Excuse me'..(too busy chatting, not listening or pretending not to...
...nobody can walk THAT slowly
...tap tap tap

shouldn't be where I want to be.....
06/04/2002 at 22:55
well, you know how irritating it is to be stuck behind walkers that go to slow, imagin what its like to try and ride behind them, esp when its a technical bit that rquires somw space and speed to clear. it's doing a track stand all the way up.
06/04/2002 at 23:32
I am just trying to imagine you balancing your bike at zero speed waiting for ramblers to shift and trying hard not to fall over just as they turn round to look at you LOL
06/04/2002 at 23:39
you scowl and hop about. the chain slpa eventually attracts their attention so you can ask them politely that one last time before muttering some expleative about ramblers as they refuse to move. Then take action by thrashing round them usually involving riding over the countryside off BW. but its their fault, they shuda moved
06/04/2002 at 23:43
Bet they were wearing RED SOCKS


hee hee hee
06/04/2002 at 23:46
and 3/4 breaches
06/04/2002 at 23:49
And gaiters on a red hot day with no sign of wet grass.
06/04/2002 at 23:52
plus the knee lenght green goretex in summer
07/04/2002 at 00:25
I have been amazed the last couple of weeks when it's been so hot in the day and we've all had shorts on and seen very many ramblers / hikers with their waterproof overtrousers and gaiters on all day. Don't they SWEAT?

It reminds me of the old ladies who wear their macs all summer long 'just in case'.
07/04/2002 at 00:44
And those old men who ride bikes with wellies on.
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