Bikers 'Hijack' Trespass Anniversary

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07/04/2002 at 00:57
...back to the original point.

Personally I have a lot of sympathy with the aims of this bike "trespass". As has been well put already in this thread, there should be some rights of way only for walkers, so that those who don't want to meet cyclists can avoid them. OTOH the current rights of access for mountain bikers are far too restrictive, and in many places totally illogical. The grading of a track as a footpath or bridleway has generally been totally at the whim of local councils, or whoever (I'm still not entirely sure who did/does this) Therefore you get the situation where on the top of the Malvern Hills, a bridleway suddenly turns into a footpath as it crosses from Worcestershire into Herefordshire (fortunately the de facto access up there is much better than the de jure).

Anyway, in reality all the bikers are asking for is a slightly fairer bite at the cherry - a few more routes for bikers where they're unreasonably restrictive, and a chance to upgrade some of the "obvious" routes to bridleway status. This is to some extent a reaction to the "right to roam" regulations, which make life much better for walkers, but do nothing for bikers - in fact they could make things worse due to the time limit on amending the status of existing routes whicch has been tacked on.

Whilst we're at it, how about repealing (or at least amending) the riduculous "racing on bridleways" law, which lets motorbikes race on bridleways, but not cyclists.
07/04/2002 at 12:01
Si..... 4x4 users appreciate the 'plight' of the MTB group. However, our problem is slightly different.....

Where as the MTB users want to have greater access to the countryside, 4x4 users just wish to be able to use the ancient tracks, byways, RUPPs, etc.... without having to constantly fight battles with the RA, etc that wish to ban us from areas that we've been using for years.

Our problem is much akin to the toffee nosed tw@t that moves to the countryside for 'piece & quiet' (without realising actually how noisy it is) and ends up getting the 200yr old pig farm next door closed down or legal injunction preventing muck spreading..... yada, yada, yada.....

M
08/04/2002 at 10:27
I'm not sure the Peak is the right area to complain about lack of access for mountain bikers - there' s actually a load of riding. As a walker, climber and mountain biker, I can see both sides of the argument. If you opened up a lot of Peak footpaths to mountain bikers, you'd end up with a load of pissed off walkers as daft youngsters on downhill bikes carved through them. I'm not knocking responsible riders, probably the majority, but there are some real inconsiderate idiots out there. I seriously reckon the end result would actually be a blanket banning of bikes from the Peak Park.

There's a huge difference between the non-existent access rights of the original protestors and those that mountain bikers currently have, which are actually pretty good. I honestly don't think there's a genuine shortage of bridleways in the Peak, though there are some glaring gaps and comparing the situation to that of the original trespassers is a tad drama queenish.

I'm not saying that there's not a good case for reviewing footpath and bridleway classifications, some of which are totally illogical.

Oh, one more thing, how would mountain bikers feel if 4x4 drivers and trail bikers decided to have a similar day of action and ride a load of pristine bridleway trails? Same principles, different side of the coin.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

08/04/2002 at 11:52
I think there's a case for looking at some reclassifications but that would more be an exception rather than rule.

IMHO I think it's just a handful of bikers getting greedy and wanting more trails to ride on..... (The grass is always greener & all that.....)

M
08/04/2002 at 12:26
Jon,

I don't think that is a problem - the inconsiderate Youth on his DH bike is going to ride where he/she wishes anyway, regardless of access legislation.

Up here in Scotland we (as far as I know) get to ride wherever we want (more or less). In the Pentlands, for example, they encourage bike use - and issue wee route cards requesting that bikes are used responsibly. It seems to work very well, there are many cyclists up there and to my knowledge there have been no real conflicts of interest. We are asked to avoid a couple of routes that are highly susceptable to erosion, and that is respected as they don't curtail us in any other way.

If this works in an upland area right on the edge of Edinburgh, why can't it work in the rest of the UK. I suspect that we have more Mountain Bikers up there than you would get in other areas of the country due to the proximity to Edinburgh.

Just a thought like :-)
08/04/2002 at 12:28
Oh - I think my point was that MTBers should be allowed on all paths, unless there is a specific environmental why not. If they (we) are treated openly then they (we) tend to go along with the wishes of the authorities!
08/04/2002 at 13:00
surely Right To Roam should be applied to all all outdoors user, not just ramblers. if its not then its a blatent act of discrimination and not giving equal oppertunities. (sorry but u have to hit them at their own game lol)
08/04/2002 at 13:01
I'm not a Rambler.
Can I still roam around the fells, Dad?
08/04/2002 at 13:05
p.s mountain bikers (usually) cause less damage that a boot/pole combo so i think the bike impct is minimal, esp if you compair the numbers of bikers to numbers of walkers. 4x4 and MX bike OTOH should be resticted due to the damage they cause and the fact that they a motor powered and that they a simply unsafe to use whilst aound other people. MTB's are pretty easy to get out of peoples way on and don't go "that" fast, also collision between mtb and rambler is usually a broken limb at the very worst. now apply this to an mx bike traveling at aroun30/40/50 mph along a crowded path. All that weight hitting a rambler or even an mtb'er. there would be fatalities
08/04/2002 at 13:12
Rob, I know where you're coming from, but the Peak is very heavily used, you don't have to be massively hooliganistic to annoy some walkers anyway and, after a lot of walker / bike friction in the past, we finally seem to have reached a stage where there's a high degree of mutual acceptance on both sides.

Perhaps I'm just naive, but as a Peak-dwelling mtber, I really don't think that mountain bikers have that much to complain about. There's a lot of excellent legal riding here and while there are some weird anomalies, where footpaths could and should be reclassified as bways, mostly they're pretty well off. Perhaps there's a lack of perspective at work?

Anyway, it's perfectly possible to work to get footpaths reclassified. Local horse riding groups manage it regularly, so perhaps the organisers of this protest would be better off using the existing channels to get selected footpaths reclassified as bridleways, maybe in conjunction with their local equestrian groups?

The reason that Ramblers manage to have so much influence is that they operate as an organised pressure group at local and national levels and use the system to promote their cause. MTBers don't seem to have cottoned on yet and are largely an amorphous bunch of individuals. I'm not knocking that, but we live in society where you're more likely to get things done by exploiting the system.

Oh, if you want to be really machiavellian about it, I suspect you'll find that a lot of hard core locals in the Peak ride footpaths anyway on an occasional basis, but not on summer weekends...

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

08/04/2002 at 13:21
Erm, 'a broken wrist at worse'. A twelve-stone rider plus a 25lb mountain bike doing 30mph downhill, which is quite possible round here, could do a lot more than break someone's wrist. Also, there are quite a few descents which are narrow rock chutes and a fair number of old, slow to react walkers as well.

Mountain bikes are also harder to hear than motorbikes.... I'm not arguing that all that matters one way or another, but don't kid yourself that nice, fluffy mountain bikers won't hurt much. Remember that accident in Hyde Park where a mountain biker died after a collision with a roller blader? Human bodies travelling at speed are quite capable of inflicting serious damage.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

08/04/2002 at 13:28
Anyway, the gist of what I'm saying is that basically mountain bikers, and I am one, have a pretty good deal in the Peak. Relations with walkers are much better than they used to be. There are existing channels for pressing for footpath upgrades if you have the nouse to use them. Yes, mountain bikes will hurt if they hit you going full tilt downhill - full susses move pretty fast - and I think this is a storm in a tea-cup based on lack of perspective. I'm not saying I'm right, or the organisers of the protest are specifically wrong, just that they may be going about it the wrong way. I'm a locally based mountain biker and I don't support their methods even if I have a lot of sympathy for some of their aims. And I don't support their methods because, in a very pragmatic way, I don't think they will achieve anything beyond making the protestors feel better. If it's just a publicity gimmick, fair enough.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

08/04/2002 at 13:30
Hear hear.....

(I think I'm with you on this one Jon.)

M
08/04/2002 at 13:34
I have never actually been to the Peak District so have no idea what it's like down there! I really should get around to rectifying this oversight as soon as possible though :-)

I guess that even the heavilly used parts of Scotland don't get anything like the visitor numbers that the English National Parks see (I have lived in the Lake District and it was a complete nightmare trying to get anywhere when the sun made a brief appearance!). The system works up here where bikes are allowed to go where ever they want, and it certainly makes mtbing days more fun - you can head off and explore without having to worry about access legislation!

As a walker I have never had any problem with Mountian Bikers up here either, so everyone is happy.

Except the ramblers :-)
08/04/2002 at 13:53
Rob,

I know what you mean about the Lakes. I was on Helvellyn in October and there was masses of people on it. I struggle to think of a Scottish mountain where I've seen that number of people.

I think we're very lucky up here.
08/04/2002 at 17:07
It's very rare that you'll find me on a mtb these days but I used to do it a fair bit more before uni. I always enjoyed tight, technical stretches best (I guess I now get the same kicks from driving on Anglesy B-roads but now I've cut back on that wanting to see my 22nd birthday and all) which I tended to find in steep wooded areas. Grinding away along bumby bridleways and the Ridgeway was, well, dull and knackering.

I'd like to see more dedicated areas and tracks for mtbs, especially as it would cut the chance of having walkers get in the way, cos I that's what I'd actuall bother to put the bike in the car and drive to. Almost a ski resort for bikes, if you will.

As far as RoWs go I think the present situation, and the oppurtunities available to people, are perfectly balanced. So no I don't think the mtb'ers have much to complain about. But it's natural to always want more, isn't it?
08/04/2002 at 20:32
True, and if like the Ramblers you have the "upper hand" then you don't want to loose what you have.

I saw an MTB-er at the weekend getting quite frustrated at the number of walkers who were using the bridleway which he was trying to ride. He was very patient however, and got off his bike to wait for the log jam of people to disperse. They were wandering along with a huge assortment of dogs all off their leads and running about.

I was actually quite embarrassed to be a walker out there on Sunday afternoon, also clogging up "his" path!

But, I'm sure he was "cussing" under his breath. If that chap is reading this well done mate...A good example to all others, both walkers and bikers to have a bit of patience, and eventually we'll ALL be happy.
09/04/2002 at 09:31
I have done this myself many times - and generally take it as a chance to have a breather, relax and get some energy back up! I imagaine it could be frustrating at times, but you just have to accept that other people wish to use the track as well!

If you want trails devoid of walkers then you head to Glentress (or similar) for hours of hooliganistic fun!
09/04/2002 at 22:57
Ben the most dangerous and unpredictable user on ROW are....Horses! try banning them with 4wd and motorcycles. Who do equestrians have the most difficulty with? Mountainbikers! 'Cause they can't hear us till it's too late to control their panic stricken steeds. MBR weere recently asked what to do on the horny horsey issue, typically they admitted to being bereft of ideas on the subject. What BHS would like us to do is "HAIL A HORSE" let them know from someway back that you are approaching their arse.
09/04/2002 at 23:07
Ben the most dangerous and unpredictable users on ROW are....Horses! Try banning them with 4wd and motorcycles. Who do Equestrians have the most difficulty with? Mountainbikers! 'Cause they can't hear us till it's too late to control their panic stricken steeds. MBR were recently asked what to do on the horny horsey issue, typically they admitted to being bereft of ideas. What BHS would like us to do is "HAIL A HORSE". Let them know from someway back that you are approaching their arse.
I must admit I was rather surprised to see CTC promoting the thread, but then they very nearly got bikes allowable on footpaths [back in 1868 when we all wandered round Borrowerslike in halftimbered Morris 1000s]
That was before their big sleep. I'm afraid CTC offroad doesn't really exist at present, they dropped the ball a couple of years ago and haven't picked it up again [probably didn't want to get their hands muddy]
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