Boy Scouts of America keeps gay ban

According to the BBC, "The Boy Scouts of America will not change its policy of excluding gay scouts and scout leaders, following a secret two-year review, the group says." Full article here.

I spotted this in a newspaper yesterday and I have to say that I find it absolutely appalling that they feel it is acceptable to ban gay members from scouting. I know that there are many people on here who have been involved in scouting in some way, including myself, which is why I felt the need to post this here. 

In my opinion, it is completely wrong to ban anyone from an organisation due to their gender, race or sexuality. I have gained so much from Scouting in the UK and it is wrong that people in the USA will miss out on all the opportunities available, because of a irrational decision by a bigoted group of people. 

i agree explorer. it seems that in 2000 the US Supreme Court agreed with the "Boy" scouts. funny old place the oo ess of ay but given the scouts religious affiliation it comes as no surprise.

a good start would be to remove gender, race or sexuality from organistion/association names.

Right behind you on that, Explorer. There is an indefensible notion in some quarters that Gay = pervert = paedophile. If you wanted to find someone holding that view the religious right of the USA would be a good place to start.

I've not found any serious anti-gay feelings in English scouting - in fact to hold such a view would be contrary to the scouting ethic in my opinion.

Grumps wrote (see)

Right behind you on that, Explorer. There is an indefensible notion in some quarters that Gay = pervert = paedophile. If you wanted to find someone holding that view the religious right of the USA would be a good place to start.

I've not found any serious anti-gay feelings in English scouting - in fact to hold such a view would be contrary to the scouting ethic in my opinion.

Indeed:

Just looked on the UK scout's website:

Scouting for All

Scouting was established in 1907 as an open and inclusive organisation with the current Equal Opportunities Policy put in place in 1996. This policy supports the principle that no member should be discriminated against on the basis of their class, gender, ethnic background, nationality, sexuality, mental or physical ability and political or religious belief.

In 2010, TSA adopted a diversity framework which puts inclusion at the heart of the organisation and outlines plans to deliver projects across all the strands. These include accessibility, LGBT, faiths and beliefs and community cohesion. We have also appointed a team of diversity ambassadors who volunteer around the country to support you in improving diversity and inclusion in your locality.

The decision stinks!

Some spot on observations and comments above.

Thanks for highlighting the issue, Explorer.

Previous discussions regarding the Scout Oath, and the God thing showed that it was the Boy scouts of America that were the organisation insisting that this be retained.

So it's hardly surprising that they're hanging on the their right-wing, 'traditional Christian' values.

But what's even worse is that, in 2010, they banned the use of home-made stoves...

Grumps wrote (see)

Right behind you on that, Explorer.

Shug Sh'ite wrote (see)

Grumps wrote (see)

Right behind you on that, Explorer.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

"Hot damn Billy Bob, we caint have those filthy pervert faggots in a Godfearin' all-'Murrcan organisation like the Boy Scouts! Why, it just aint Christian. Next thang ya know, they'll be letting them thar niggers join."

I don't mean to caricature all Americans as bigoted rednecks, of course, but it appears from this that there seem to be some real neanderthals running the Boy Scouts of America. But before we Brits get too high on our horses, it's not that long since homosexuality was illegal here - just look how we thanked Alan Turing for his immense contribution to wartime code-breaking. Times and prejudices change - I doubt very much if Baden Powel's attitude to gay men would've have been liberal or tolerant. 

No athiests or UK republicans in UK scouting unless they are willing to lie in their 'promise'.  Many years ago I helped out with a scout group as my friend who ran it was struggling but had to leave when they were pushing for me to be 'official'.  Of course as an athiest many folk assume you have no moral standards - that includes solicitors - one of which was incredulous I would not swear on a bible.  Cost him a fiver for another solicitor to witness a non faith oath.  Both took the piss - briefly.

How do you defend your beloved Scout movement on that one Explorer?

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs322016.pdf

 The Scout Association is a diverse organisation that welcomes Members from all backgrounds, as long as they are able to make their promise. Part of the promise 'To do my duty to God' requires that the person taking the promise believes in a higher being - this can be called 'God', 'Allah' or 'Dharma'. Therefore when we have new adult leaders we ask that they believe in a higher being so that they can help the young people under their care to fulfil the promise they make as Scouts.

Only in America

You're quiet right GOF.   You don't have to join. 

 Scouting was established in 1907 as an open and inclusive organisation with the current Equal Opportunities Policy put in place in 1996. This policy supports the principle that no member should be discriminated against on the basis of their class, gender, ethnic background, nationality, sexuality, mental or physical ability and political or religious belief.

I would say the above contradicts  the UK org's actual policies.  Hypocrisy.  They try & gloss over it at a local level - not important.  Just words.  How very principled.

On paper a one legged gay Argentinian Nazi is  more welcome in the UK Scout movement than a UK born republican atheist.

Church weddings, christenings & funerals Parky.  If our lad wants Christening he can sort it out himself when he's firm in his own beliefs like my own Ma did in her 20's.

 Discrimination from organisations like this is no big surpise.  Discrimination over sex & sexuality within religous organisations is far wider than the Scouts.

I was asked to carry out some research a couple of years ago on youth work provision in a central Scotland town - most of the activities were run by the variety of churches in the area, including the uniformed organisations. As part of our chat, at least one of the Scout leaders was keen to emphasise that he wasn't religious, and referred me to Scouting UK's website which affirms their commitment to equality in their membership policy. Nothing that I heard from other leaders or the young people I spoke to contradicted this viewpoint, and I don't think I've ever come across a situation in recent years where the Scouts have been intentionally excluding towards someone on the basis of religious beliefs or sexuality (the only real weakness I percieve about their ethos is that I don't think it works too well in situations where kids are not 'pre-socialised' by parents, but that's a different discussion!).

I think it would be pretty unfair to try and denigrate Scouting UK by association with the US branch of the movement, as they seem to espouse very different values on the issue of sexuality and participation.

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels the same way. Yes, you don't have to join Scouts, but what if you want to but can't because you happen to be gay? As Parky said, "being gay or black isn't [an opinion]" so people shouldn't be excluded because of something they have no control over. 

@Spiritburner: You raise an important point about religion in scouting. I was already aware of the fact, although from my experience groups are so keen for new leaders that they wouldn't turn people away. I don't wish to defend my "beloved" Scouts on that issue - I would like to see the ruling changed so that you can join if you are not religious. In my opinion, no one should be excluded so I believe that the legislation should be changed slightly. (Having said that, Scouting does have a religious basis and as you said,"You don't have to join")

However, the no atheist rule in the UK does not excuse the Boy Scouts of America from banning people based on their sexuality. It is indefensible, in my opinion, to exclude people from an organisation because they happen to be gay.

Explorer  wrote (see)

 It is indefensible, in my opinion, to exclude people from an organisation because they happen to be gay.

Just playing Devils Advocate here.

There is a gay climbing club, but i can't remember their name. Would it be ok to form a straight only climbing club?

The whole world is 'straight' Mike, why would you need a refuge?

Nice measured response form Explorer, btw.

Shug MacSlug wrote (see)

Just playing Devils Advocate here.

There is a gay climbing club, but i can't remember their name. Would it be ok to form a straight only climbing club?

That's a good point. There is no easy answer and I've seen it debated regarding other topics, such as women-only car insurance.  I guess the gay climbing club could argue that there are other clubs to join if you're straight but that gay people might want to stick together for mutual support.

>Nice measured response form Explorer, btw. 

Thanks