Jack or Jake ?????????

shane.N

23/04/2006 at 12:03

I have recently moved to Kent from Teeside.On moving here I joined the Scouts as a leader.Our district does annual trips to the Lake District where the scouts climb Pavey Ark via JAKES rake.I have always known it as JACKS rake.Is this a north/south thing or is it known by both names or is it just one of us is wrong?
(sits back and eagerly await replies/arguments) :)))

Paddy Dillon

23/04/2006 at 12:21

Ever since I first scrambled up it, on 14th April 1974, it's been Jack's Rake. I have heard people call it Jake's Rake, on rare occasions, but I just assume they've made a mistake. I only live here, by the way, so my opinion might count for nothing when compared to a visitor!

My favourite pet hates...

Saddleback - instead of Blencathra
Lake Windermere - instead of Windermere
Lake Anything - for that matter!
Langdale Valley - instead of Langdale
'Scaffill' - instead of Scafell
People reading Wordsworth in a 'posh' accent - when he would have read his stuff in a noticeable dialect.

I could go on... but I won't.

Matt C

23/04/2006 at 12:35

Oh, go on Paddy - you know you want to...! ;)

And yes, definitely JACK'S Rake imo.

Ray !!!!!

23/04/2006 at 13:20

just cause you live there does'nt mean a thing paddy.you must never forget the costomer(visitor)is always right.!!;0)jakes rake rhymes anyway.

Paddy Dillon

23/04/2006 at 13:24

I know I'm at a disadvantage. I'm just a single resident, and there are 12 million visitors per year!

Ray !!!!!

23/04/2006 at 13:29

everybody knows its named after jake from the tweenies.

Steve Perry

23/04/2006 at 15:19

Jack's Rake according to Mr Wainwright's Central fells surely the old boy isn't wrong.

Peewiglet

23/04/2006 at 15:42

Well I'm a visitor, rather than a resident, and I say it's Jack's. Hopefully that settles things ;)

~Batman~

23/04/2006 at 15:57

Why not settle for a compromise?

Jonathan's Rake?

23/04/2006 at 16:10

It's Jack's Rake. Jake's Rake comes from people mis-pronouncing it (Jake rhyming with Rake).

But Paddy, people say 'Lake Windermere' to distinguish it from the village/town that inherited it's name (the town was called Birthwaite, but was renamed when the rail link arrived, in order to give the town a more appealing name to potential tourists, and emphasise the link with the nearby lake).

I will regularly use the terms Buttermere Lake, Grasmere Lake, and Lake Windermere to distinguish the lakes from the villages, as do my family, and we're Cumbrian born and bred (except my mum, but she's an honourary member) ;-)

23/04/2006 at 16:11

Actually, I'm the only one who's Cumbrian technically, as Cumbria didn't exist when the other members of my family were born.

23/04/2006 at 16:13

Paddy: agree with you about Saddleback. That term's only for use by people from Penrith.

I also get a bit irritated when people pronounce Scafell as 'Scar-fell' when it should be 'Scaw-fell'.

Paddy Dillon

23/04/2006 at 16:21

Hey - the lakes were there before the towns and villages - so it should be 'Windermere Town' rather than 'Lake Windermere'. A 'mere' is a lake anyway. If folks are confused, then they should rename the villages and leave the lakes alone!

When someone says "We could go to the pub in Windermere" - it's obvious they're not thinking of an underwater pub, any more than "getting a ferry across Windermere" means that the boat goes along the roads through town.

But at least you say it's Jack's Rake!

Mike.Knipe

23/04/2006 at 16:55

Mount Snowden....Aaargh...

Once (long time ago) saw a report of a fell rescue on "Mount Ingleborough" double aaargh....

Almost as daft as Penhill Hill.

Its Jack's Rake btw.

Tony M

23/04/2006 at 18:05

Are you sure it's a rake, and not a hoe?

n/a

24/04/2006 at 11:05

Had a look at Wainwright's Central Fells book, on page Pavey Ark 6 (ascent via Jack's Rake) he references a big cairn with a built-in tablet, inscribed "JWS 1900". Can we presume that JWS is the Jack in question here?

24/04/2006 at 11:14

"Mount Snowden....Aaargh...

It's almost as bad as mis-spelling it! ;-)

Cath Sullivan

24/04/2006 at 16:50

I didn't realise there were people who called it Jake's Rake. I've always called it Jack's Rake. Probably guilty of saying Lake Windermere though. I'm afraid I also say 'scarfell'. I kind of think it would seem a bit pretentious of me to suddenly start saying 'scawfell' after all these years of saying it 'scarfell'. You'd think I'd have listened to my mother, who was brought up in Cumbria, and always said 'scawfell'. Mind you, why change the habit of a liftime (listening to my mother, I mean).

I wonder if this is just about accents. If I was going to Glasgow and wanted to tell somebody I was going there, I wouldn't pronounce my destination with a fake Scottish accent. Is 'scawfell' any different from this? Although if I was going to Chamonix, I probably wouldn't pronounce the x or pronounce the ch as if it were at the start of 'chelmsford'. (Oh dear, I hope that doesn't start a debate about how to pronounce that word - I'm sure you get my point.)

Edited: 24/04/2006 at 16:52

Simonx

24/04/2006 at 17:19

Definitely Jack's.
Jack's Rack.

Outside of Cumbria most people say Scar-fell rather than Scaw-fell, it might sound pretentious to change now.

Now "Skiddaw" - how does one pronounce that?

I think it's more Sk'door than Skid-awe ??

Cath Sullivan

24/04/2006 at 17:23

I've been told to pronounce it skidda - instead of skid-awe, but I feel similarly about that as I do scafell.

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