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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19252949BBC - this was on PM tonight at about 17:45. I met a guy on the summit of Cairntoul on Saturday night at about 19:30 who plainly had no idea where he was or where he was going. Set him right to at least hit the LG track then washed my hands of him. Wonder if he was one of them?

On South Uist a fortnight back I popped out at the Loch Skipport road to be met by a couple asking me how long it would take to walk up 'that' (Hecla). Someone asking this question isn't competent enough to get any answer other than "Dunno, how fast do you walk?"

Giving a bit of guidance to somebody on the hill is one thing, but is 'helping' people in this latter scenario, i.e. telling them what they think they want to know, morally justifiable? By 'helping' them you're setting them up to be the kind of statistic in that BBC report. And, by extension, is offering well meaning advice to people you don't know on internet forums, ignorant of their level of their experience, similarly misguided?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19252949

I know what you mean - my last well-meaning advice was to some American tourists in the Lost Valley (GlenCoe) heading for the headwall. They weren't well prepared and I regretted my offhand advice 5 mins after we'd passed. Seeing MR at the car park gave me a real sinking feeling - but thankfully it wasn't them. I keep a less helpful face on when I'm in honeypot territory these days.

As for online - I stick to describing what I've done. You can't advise unseen strangers.

unless its asked for (advice) then its not given, i think. i always ask!.

A long time ago (1980's) I met what I assume was a teacher, with several young people,  on the top of the Glyders. You could see for miles, completely clear. He asked me where they were. He did have a map, but had no idea at all where he was. I showed him his position on the map and gave him some advice on which way to go. I didn't hear any more about them, so assume they didn't win a Darwin award.

I recall thinking "What are you doing up here, if you can't work out where you are in perfect conditions".  He was obviously incompetent and shouldn't have been out in charge of a group of young people. However, I have made stupid mistakes myself in the mountains. Perhaps a case of "People in glass houses..."

I fully believe we should have check points at every access point onto the hills. No shelter, sleep and cook system and you're turned back.

We should also have a "miserable old git" filter on OM.

Include a little history in your walks. Pecsaetan - Ancient Derbyshire, Staffordshire and South Yorkshire - http://pecsaetan.weebly.com/

geekinthesticks wrote (see)

A long time ago (1980's) I met what I assume was a teacher, with several young people,  on the top of the Glyders. You could see for miles, completely clear. He asked me where they were. He did have a map, but had no idea at all where he was. I showed him his position on the map and gave him some advice on which way to go. I didn't hear any more about them, so assume they didn't win a Darwin award.

I recall thinking "What are you doing up here, if you can't work out where you are in perfect conditions".  He was obviously incompetent and shouldn't have been out in charge of a group of young people. However, I have made stupid mistakes myself in the mountains. Perhaps a case of "People in glass houses..."

I hear the "glass houses" line but in that situation i'd have told the group leader in no uncertain terms "Oi, dickhead, you and the kids are following me down off here right now, if you politely refuse i'll knock seven shades of shoit out of you", Discreetly of course. 

Include a little history in your walks. Pecsaetan - Ancient Derbyshire, Staffordshire and South Yorkshire - http://pecsaetan.weebly.com/

Stoner - is the miserable old git filter to include or exclude such? I have a personal interest.

I was once very abruptly stopped by a Merkin couple in Canterbury - the guy just stepped in front of me and put his arm up! "What's a good restaurant?" was all he said. "The Savoy" I answered and off they went. I'd heard a similar story shortly before and was delighted to be able to use the response. So next time I'm asked "Whats' the quickest way down?" I shall say what we all think, but never say, when asked that.

Not much point me a miserable old git if you don't exercise your rights.

 i've never found responding with superior, smug, sarcasm as being helpful to anyone who happens to ask me something.

it does serve to really piss me off and give me the impression of what a head up the arse w@nker that person is though when it has been applied to me.

no wonder people just scowl and not say a cheery good day to you when you greet them.

manners and civility are free and should be thrown about with abandon.

 

oooh! the text went all funny...

Well said Parky. Its easy to forget your own mistakes when trying to correct others, even when they appear clueless. I've forgotten maps, waterproofs, food, water etc, always survived and never got really lost but still felt stupid about it. I've asked for help/advice once or twice and have given help/advice myself when asked. That doesn't mean I think people going up in the hills totally unprepared and expect to be choppered off when lost is right.    

I agree with being approachable and constructive but take the more serious point from Montgomery Wick's post (and others): By helping do you run the risk of exacerbating the situation and causing some to go on when they should return? And what responsibility do you assume (mentally even if not formally)? For that reason alone I think it is better to be pleasant at the start as few people will respond to "You're a (illequipped?, incompetent?) fool. Go home!" but may respond to sensible discussion about their real options.

I must confess to helping a couple down from the summit of Fairfield last year.  It was blowing a gale and they were not properly dressed and Fairfield is a nightmare to get down from in the mist if you don't know it (I do know it and it took me a while!). 

I hope they saw the error of their ways (at the least they wre cold and wet for a couple of hours).