New hunting idea!

So fox hunting has finally been banned as we know it!
I realise that foxes can cause mayhem when they get into chicken runs e.t.c and also that their numbers must be kept in check but surely the use of guns is far more humane than a pack of dogs ripping them to shreds!
If however the huntsmen are seeking a new form of exercise then maybe they could smear their testicles with the foxes scent and give themselves a ten minute head start on the hounds.This new sport could well cause even the true lovers of the countryside such as ourselves to view this spectacle!

Would they have to drag them along the ground though? (an even better spectacle)

Maybe if they hung low enough!

Beercat
Could be a problem that, They are so far up each other's Ar$es they could probably do a konga line the only problem is it would have to be in a circle as the man at the back would feel left out. This could significantly decrease the chances of them getting any head start the silly feckers would be running in circles ;-)

Apparantly, according to a news report last night, the fox prefers the "sporting chance" of being chased to near exhaustion & then ripped apart, to the "far less sporting" method of being dispatched by a shot gun. (said by a gurning tw*t in a red tunic).

When did THAT questionnaire go out?

thing is with shooting is that its very hard to hit a fox accuratly (fast little buggers!) majority of the time they crawl away and bleed to death - not very humane at all! On the other hand being caught by a hound they get killed instantly as the dogs are trained to go the the back on the neck first. The getting chased bit is a bit of a downer admittedly but in the hunts I have supervised the hunters call the dogs off after 10-15 mins if the fox hasn't been caught in that time and we also have a policy of not releasing foxes just so we can go and hunt them. Also I always make sure there is a vet on hand. Can't speak for any other hunt organisers there though.


On the other side of the coin, the hunting ban means that thousands of dogs and horses will be put to sleep as they no longer have any use. Anyone who thinks rehoming all of them is possible is living in la la land (no offense!). The dogs are used to living in a pack and will not be house trained, making rehoming very hard.

I am the first to admit, fox hunting has its flaws, but I do not believe an outright ban is the anwer. It should simply be a method of pest extermination, just like mice pigeons or even bacteria! But I don't think it should be a sport.

So using your arguement Looby Loo, we should just have one person with the pack of dogs to hunt the fox. That way not a sport and the dogs are saved. And becomes just another method of pest control.

Lets face it, the mass killing of the dogs and horses is a falicy. Just because they can't hunt foxes, doesn't mean that you can't ride the horses anymore. Or are they special horses that can't be used for anything else. As for the dogs. Please they can be used for other things or rehomed. Basically all this arguement is being used for is to try and justify continuing the "sport", let us kill the fox inhumanely or the dogs and horses die.

On the shooting front, I thought lampers (or whatever they are called) took pride in killing with a single shot. And the whole point of using the lamp was? oh yeah to allow the lamper to get a shot at a still target.

Fox hunting is not a sport, full stop end of story. It's not open for debate, as there is nothing to debate. I didn't see the OIC asking last week about the fox hunting facilities while over here.

Fox hunting is up there with badger baiting, dog fighting, bear baiting, and cock fighting (all grand traditional "sports" from our past). So the tradition arguement is also a big pile of B/S.

Would you have one of these hounds Darren? Im on the fence over the issue myself (i shoot) but a hound has only one real use There is no way you could rehome them unless you you had a 2 year old kid you wanted rid of, As Lu says they are not pets they are basicly instinct Killers the first time your kids crawl across the living room its curtains (hey I might have found a use for them in cirtain inner city council estates then ;-)

Weird Darren: I would like to know how you propose that farmers afford the expert shooters? Also a running fox is NOT a still target! Hiring shooters is not economically viable, and the majority of stables won't be either. So although the horses will still have a use there will not be a demand for that number of horses so the majority will end up as glue and dog food.

Next we come to the dogs, they are killers, therefore cannot be used as sheep dogs - they will take out the whole flock! They have no other use in the country and although I like the idea of releasing them on council estates I think that may be even more controversial than the hunting ban!! They are not pets, they are bred as killers and live in packs. You isolate one and you have one pi**ed off, depressed and therefore very unpredictable dog, and an unpredictable killer is not a good thing to have in a residential area! I know I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a pi**ed off hound! Therefore goodbye most dogs too. My problem with the opposers who want to end hunting to stop the foxes being killed is the la la land view that all the hounds and horses can go to little retirement homes and live happily ever after!

I also have a problem with the people who have no experience of farm life and trying to balance the farm books in the advent of foot and mouth and BSE (apologies if you aren't one of them). We cannot afford to hire marks men. The hunt brings in income - we are paid for the hunt to be able to cross our land and god knows we need that income!

As for it being on par with badger baiting, dog fighting, bear baiting, and cock fighting - the afore mentioned are all a slow death for nothing but sport whereas fox hunting is a fast death and is also a method of pest control. maybe not the perfect one but if everything was perfect I would have big tits and no cellulite! I'm not saying hunting is the right way but it is also not the wrong way and there are very few alternatives. The dogs are trained, that fox is dead the second the hounds are on it. How is an instant death inhumane?!

What about killing mice or ants? Poisoning is a much slower death than hunting. should this be banned too? they are animals, they have feelings too!

What gets me most is that the majority of opposers to hunting have never set foot on a farm let alone a hunt and none of them can come up with a better solution. We donn't tell you how to run your big corporations so don't tell us how to run our farms!

Again, I would like to reiterate that I'm not saying fox hunting is the best way but it is definately far from ideal and I admit that I have seen some poorly organised and cruel hunts but it is possible to be humane. Maybe we should try regulating it more rather than an outright ban.

Oh and one last comment darren: It is NOT a pile of B/S, it is my opinion and I am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours.

Rant over, apologies to any offended parties but this is my biggest EVER gripe!

Yes Looby Loo, You are quite entitled to perpetuate the myths and help spread the CAs downright lies and misinformation on what should by now be a closed subject.

Hunting with dogs in situations connected with this act is now illegal and all these tired arguments are now somewhat irrelevant and academic.

Your assertions have been discussed in previous strings, and quite frankly, every one can be refuted.

One of the BIGGEST lies that you have apparently swallowed is the "Town versus Country" argument. It simply is NOT the case. For every apparent supporter of the hunts within county folk, there are many as vehemently opposed. Similarly, there are many "townies" who regularly involve themselves in hunting.

To suggest that opponents are somehow ignorant of the true nature of the subject is typical of the arrogant stance adopted supporters of this barbaric "sport."

For example, I have a sheep farming cousin who is more vehemently opposed to hunting with dogs AS A SPORT than I am. Personally, I don't feel strongly enough about it to worry about it. He. on the other hand feels so strongly that he prevents the local hunt from entering his land, which prevents them gaining access to a whole range of open mountainside.

He would be the first to admit that the greatest losses to sheep farmers is poor husbandry and leaving ewes in the hills in all weathers. He has more problems with stray dogs than foxes. He is not sentimental though, when he loses wildfowl to foxes, he goes out on a shooting party and kills them outright.

Then we come to another fallacy. The welfare of the hounds. One of the local kennel managers readily admits that hounds in his pack are lucky to reach three years old before they are put down, so don't kid us that any other hunt master is going to be sentimental and give a damn about the welfare of the hounds. But even given that, there is no need to put the hounds down OR attempt the impossible task of re-homing them, just carry on drag hunting !

You cannot seriously expect anyone to believe that people are so fickle that they are going to give up riding and put their mounts down just because they cannot any longer "enjoy" the blood lust of seeing a fox ripped apart !

I have to say that if that is so, then they deserve it!

And Finlay yes, I fully support Darren's view. Fox hunting is exactly the same as the other outlawed "sports" such as badger baiting, dog and cock fighting etc.

I do concede that there is duplicity in standards and that people would perhaps not be so concerns if it were rats being killed in this way, but at the end of the day, that is NOT the point.

Fox hunting has been outlawed by a majority in a democracy. My inclination is to say to supporters, live with it and either comply with the law or face the consequences!

Or GAUD fobid, vote the Tories back in !!!!


:-((((

Forbid that should have read !!!

I always thought one of the arguments for hunting was that the number of foxes actually killed was miniscule, had no effect on numbers. for years we were told most got away.
And I agree with the horses argument. People who love there horses are still going to ride them. If they have them put down then they never really loved them in the first place, and the whole argument that hunting is more about the riding goes out the window.

Looby, please reread the b/s comment. It never said your views very b/s. But that the arguement about tradition was.

I can't imagine the amount of money from the hunts being that large that a farm would miss the money. If a hunt paid every farmer thousands of pounds to access their land then I would agree they would miss it.

However I have lived in the country, and on a farm. So thank you for jumping to a wrong conclusion about my background.

I am also entitled to say what goes on in the country as farmers seem to forget that via the taxes people pay, they are being supported by the "townies" via subsidies. I know the money comes from the EU, but hey we pay an aweful lot of cash into the pot from our tax money. So farmers etc are more than glad to take our handouts and then tell us to f/o! Lets see how long farmers survive on hunt money and not our tax money via the EU then.
And has been pointed out LOTS of country folk also are against hunting, as there are "townies" that are for hunting.

I can certainly think of a few local landowners who keep a horse or horses solely for going hunting, and apart from the hunting season I rarely see these horses being ridden..

I don't know anyone who's done this recently but apparently the best way of controling rats is using a barrel... (and you don't want to know about that!)

Yes Hamish, my grandfather had a chicken farm and he was plagued by rats, do I have experienced the "barrel" method. Funnily though, he never had problems with Reynard, must have been the fox proof runs and the dogs that he kept in the same runs !!

And Ritchie S, I don't know if you meant to, but you have exploded another of the "myths" that we were exposed to during the campaigned to keep hunting prior to the ban. We were told that fox hunting was the most efficient way to control the fox population. Witness then the Master of the Warwickshire hunt holding up a dead fox and stating that in that morning he had worked within the law and flushed out 5 foxes with two hounds and shot them dead!

Now apart from shooting the foxes, I would suggest that he also shot himself in the foot and did his cause no good by confirming what we all suspected, that the "traditional" hunt was and is a very INEFFICIENT way of "controlling" the fox population, and it is simply a blood lust and totally unnecessary !

We now need to convince the farmers (especially sheep farmers) that their need to "control" the fox population is not quite as acute a need as the CA would have had us believe. Foxes do not routinely take lambs, they feed on the carcasses of the lambs who die by being born on a bleak Welsh hill and who die within minutes from hypothermia.

If anyone wonders where I get that gem from, then I can tell them it is from my own experience. Having served in the Ambulance rescue unit in the BBNP, I attended many a search, but one in particular, we searched the Caerfenell valley on an atrocious April night for a lost fell runner. Not only did we find her dead, but also 20 lambs that had died from exposure. Foxes eat carrion, what a feast for them that night, but they we not the cause, but the solution, just think about it!

All that remains is to persuade the farmers that if they do indeed have a problem, then spend some of that hard earned subsidy and hire in professional marksmen who will alleviate their "problem" with ease and in a totally professional and "efficient" way!

Actually Jason its Pink, hunt staff dont wear red, just as they dont have dogs only hounds :-) Master might also wear green just in case your on the look out!

If its just propaganda about hounds being put to sleep where did the South Cornwall hounds vanish to Darren, damn thats a mystery??

For the record, im not pro hunting, but I have been hunting when younger many times and do see both sides of the coin. I definitely do not think hounds are killers, having pupped walked many over the years, it was always a joy to go back on kennel open day and see your puppy as it matured. If they are such evil killers why are children always let into the ring on show day to mingle amongst hounds? Yes, I agree its a difficult job to rehouse them but not sure its an argument to keep hunting going in its present state. Very few hunts are now farming hunts, if you look you will generally see mr townie arrive in his porsche not having seen his horse all week, having had some under paid livery gal excercise it so he can have his fun till lunchtime. He will then pass over said sweaty horse and head for the pub. If this is the state of hunting why have it? just another rich townie sport, because most country folk cant afford £3-500 subscription and £60 cap.

Tony, if hunting is now over how come the North Cornwall had a reported 300 followers last Saturday?

No Annie it was definately a red tunic. Maybe my TV's on the blink ;-)

& to put my tuppence worth in, Tony is dead right. foxes are only doing what they're genetically programmed to do. If people don't protect their animals in a proper manner, then what do they expect?

& before anyone jumps on me; i too have first hand experience of farming & "pest control" on farms. In fact, my father's uncle used to be a gamekeeper down in Cornwall. He used to breed pheasants by the 1000 ready for release during the shooting season. He kept well secured runs & sheds for the birds & hardly ever had problems with foxes. If a persistant fox kept coming back, he would simply go out with his shotgun, find the bugger & dispatch of it quickly & cleanly.