Overnight Parking at Ogwen

Earlier this month I'd planned a three night wildie doing Carnedds /Glyders/Snowdon based at Isaf. When I asked if it would ok to start and finish on his site and leave my car there in between I got a definite no from the owner. I offered to pay for car parking when I wasn't there to no avail. Here's his reasons -

1. He has been talking to the Uchaf owner who farms Tryfan and upwards, and they have agreed not to facilitate wild camping because it is illegal.
2. Thay are concerned with litter problems
3. They don't like the idea of human waste filtering into their water supply
4. They cannot guarantee security of cars and tents while the owners are away from site.

I was not inclined to debate these points with him at that time, although I put the obvious counter-arguments as politely as I could. After all I did want to camp on his field! I did not press any arguments however.

I can't help wondering why they would give up income from an effort-free source. Certainly they used to be happy to allow overnight car parking. There's a loaming shape behind this all - and I don't mean Tryfan! The National Trust seem to be increasing their presence in the area and that is just the sort of organisation to discourage wild camping. Does the NT have any lien over Uchaf / Isaf? Something here defies common sense. I wait to be enlightened.

Oh - we rethought our walks and made four excellent days of it. Really hot sunny days too. Sweated our way up Tryfan and Bristly Ridge. (Yes I did the Adam &Eve jump just like a tourist!) So really I was glad to have only a day pack on my back.

I don't really take on their concerns about water supply. The land is sheep grazing and very probably contaminated with cryptosporidium so all water drawn from the land would need careful treatment. Given the amount of cattle and sheep dung - not to mention the odd rotting carcass - objections to water contamination can be taken with a large pinch of salt. Also - where do the farm workers pee? And they are on the hills 365 days a year. I don't think they pack out solid waste either.

If I offer to pay for car parking which is the same fee as camping I am in effect asking for permission to camp on the farmer's land but away from the camping field. Which isn't really wild camping.

Farmer Isaf did mention tales of a school which took 24 children wild camping up on the Glyders. Dates and location unknown, and I got the impression he didn't fully accept the story. Such a thing would need a lot of explaining and I don't believe any school would sanction it. However - if it did happen it's another case of 'responsible' wild campers paying the penalty for those who are not.

This needs a little more digging. The heavy hand of NT policy might well have fallen here.

In future I'd park in Capel Curig (sorry: not going to say excactly where!) and get the bus up the valley or walk in.

Kelvin wrote (see)

The laybys on the A5 are free, I don't see the big deal anyway. My van's (yes, white) has been parked up in them for days on end and been perfectly fine, winter and summer. You've already paid for a tax disc - why pay to park?

beat me to it!

I've parked there several times overnight and would certainly consider it safer than somewhere secluded like the back of Joe Brown's.

re: contamination - last week I came down off Gallt yr Ogof to Gwern Gof Isaf and passed FIVE rotting carcasses of mature sheep, wtf been going on?

I agree about the layby parking - use it very frequently and would definitely regard it as safer than a secluded carpark. There are usually people in camper vans staying over night there too, so your car alarm is likely to attract attention even if someone does try to break in.

As for dead sheep - not sure on those cases, but there are some quite severe problems with a new strain of footrot this year, with a lot of lame sheep on the hill and this can be crippling enough to prevent the sheep from grazing and almost impossible to treat in a hill farm setting.

If you were prepared to pay a sum for parking equal to the fee for camping just pitch one of your spare tents next to the car and set off. I doubt that the farmer would notice a complete lack of movement in and around the tent over a couple of days.

You do have a spare tent, don't you? If not, what are you doing on OM?

Jonathan Quirk wrote (see)

You do have a spare tent, don't you? If not, what are you doing on OM?

LOL

I'm sure there's a compulsory "Hilleberg Akto or TN Laser; which spare tent do you have?" thread that you have to post to when you join.

I did think the same thing myself, that if you really have an aversion to layby parking, paying for a camping spot (and even paying £10 to get a value tent from Tesco/Asda) would get you your parking space with no questions asked.

Grumps,

Not a new response from farmers.  I had the similar replies to the same request from the owner of Uchaf/Isaf (can't remember; the one near Tryfan) back in October 2009. 

Do all the ML candidates from PyB go back to the centre to use the lavatory while on the 3 day camping bit of the assessment? 

BC2 - interesting. Something doesn't ring quite right though.

Farmers are pragmatic chaps - they have to be - so why aren't they keen to take a tenner when it's offerred? Those making the offer for the right to camp on the farmer's land up in the hills would have to be the more 'responsible' campers. The less responsible wouldn't bother asking nor paying. However, it may be that the farmer's stance is based on experience and trust abused.

Having thought about this thread a bit, I guess it may possibly come down to rental agreement (with the landowner, National Trust for much of the area) +/- planning legislation.

Consent for a campsite (even with parking facilities) is probably very different to consent for a car-park.

RRD - v.good point. When does providing parking for a few 'off-site' campers become a car park?

All I ask is one small, secure, carpark in the valley with space for two cars. One for me, one for my best friend*.

*Situation vacant. Apply enclosing photo. Female only.