What is your opinion now?
Keith Bancroft wrote (see)
..Bear in mind too that de Menezes was one of thousands of people illegally staying here after his visa had expired. If he'd obeyed the law and left when he was supposed to it would never have happened. This doesn't excuse what happened to him but he certainly made a bad choice which may well have cost him his life.
I've not looked into it in any depth but just off the cuff I feel that constraining the jury in this manner really has me bordering on disbelief!
In fairness to the firearms officers involved, I doubt they'd been trained in how to react to a possible suicide bomber, and tensions were running high so soon after 7/11 but at the end of the day someone needs to be accountable. An open verdict is not good enough IMO.
Humm, reminds me of the Hutton Inquiry.
It was clearly a horrible mistake, what is not clear is what really lead to this. I am not sure that a criminal case against the officers involved would be in the public interest.
I don't think that any individual is culpable for the outcome. IMO the real criminality is in the web of lies that have been perpetrated by the authorities/police/government following the events.
it seems to me that the unecasary death of a young man has been swallowed upin a mountain of bureaucracy, as much of modern life and justice is.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the case the coroner was quite correct in ruling out a verdict of unlawful killing. The Met Police have already been tried in a court of law for the killing and no person was found guilty of murder/manslaughter, A verdict of unlawful killing from a coroners court would have been incompatible with the earlier trial.
Argue with the results of the earlier trial if you like, but double jeopardy is still fundamental to our legal system
It puzzles me that the Police are accused of not shouting a warning before the shooting. As I understand it, the normal procedure if it is considered necessary to shoot an armed man to protect others is to shout a warning and, if he fails to drop the weapon, aim for the torso. In the case of people believed to be suicidal terrorists with explosives strapped to their bodies and in crowded places, multiple shots to the head are used instead because someone shot in the torso might still be able to set off the explosives. In such cases shouting a warning sounds like a bad idea. I hope the police wouldn't do so if there was a genuine suicide bomber and I was nearby.
In the De Menezes case there were obviously failings in the procedures and decisions which led to the shooting, but I don't think anyone suggests that the officers who shot him believed anything other than that he was a suicide bomber. That being so, any blame belongs elsewhere rather than with men who did a thoroughly unpleasant job in the belief that they were protecting the public.
Tepee wrote (see)
Are you trying to say that evidence disclosed in the coroners court would have led to a different verdict in the trial?
Tepee, who are you?
Why do you have no info on your bio?
Why have you hidden your stats?
I think Frum has it spot on. The officers that killed Mr De Menezes, unfortunate as his death was, did a very good job.
I truly feel for his family, and it's not something that anyone would like to see repeated I'm sure: -
However, had he actually been a suicide bomber, the officers involved in his death would have been heroes(hero's?). They did a difficult job, extremely professionally. Further to this, those officers now have to live with the fact that, through no fault of their own, they killed an innocent man.
Not to say that what happened is a good thing, but the blame here is on the bad intel that they received, and that is a whole other beast entirely that is very difficult to narrow down.
Neil Sheridan at mountainstuff.net/blog wrote (see)
Keith Bancroft wrote (see)..Bear in mind too that de Menezes was one of thousands of people illegally staying here after his visa had expired. If he'd obeyed the law and left when he was supposed to it would never have happened. This doesn't excuse what happened to him but he certainly made a bad choice which may well have cost him his life.Wow! His visa/immigration status is completely irrelevant to his death! I really can't believe you have written that.
But that is why he was running from the police because it had expired and he thought they wanted him for it.Running from the law always gets a chase guilty or not and like said before tensions were high.
Frum has it spot on .The words of a wise old man
I concur with Frum, the officers on the street were in belief that they were stopping a suicide bomber. And in this instant they had to STOP him. It is extremely unfortunate that he was not and my thoughts go out to his family but I can understand the officers on the ground doing their job which is extremely daunting. They operate every day with the thought of life and death and the power to take it away and they have my profound respect for a difficult task.
I haven't looked into the coronors case myself but from what has been mentioned and my own experiences in coronors courts more information does normally come forward that does not make it into criminal cases and it is wrong if a jury is to withhold information but the judge must have a valid reason for this whatever it may be.
I'm sure that new rulings will soon be put in place for armed officers and the senior officials that give the orders to shoot.
If only there were more days in the week so I could spend more time out there.
How incredibly nosey of you! I dont go round checking anybody elses details, I dont see why people should be interested in mine. Having a professional interest in IT, I believe its very bad practice to publish any personal data on the web, so always leave a minimum of information as a matter of course - but as far as I know I haven't hidden any stats.
It seems I'm right to do so if people want to check up on me.Scary.
Edit: I have unchecked status in my profile, so it appears that unwittingly I've removed the stats from underneath my username on forum posts (obviously Frum has too, so I'm not alone).
So what should the Police do when suicide bombers are on the loose?
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