How do you get on MLTB ?

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19/05/2003 at 18:11
Hi, I have just been asked how you get on the MLTB course and I haven't got a clue. So I tried searching which they had already done.

So I said I bet I know some people who will know?

I seem to remember that those Welsh chappies at plac y brenda or something, teach it but how do you actually apply for it please?
19/05/2003 at 18:29
My mate at work is doing it and I'm fairly sure he loged onto it throught the BMC website. If no-one else confirms it I'll see him tomorrow and double check for you.
19/05/2003 at 18:38
Have a look at the MLTB website.

19/05/2003 at 19:50
That's brilliant Alex thank's a lot.

I wonder why it did not come up on google?

Anyway thank you very much
19/05/2003 at 20:00
Join the BMC £22.50

Register with the MLTE £25.00

Do 20 quality mountain days...

Do training course £375
19/05/2003 at 20:08
Then a consolidation period (usually a year) full of QMDs then the assessment - cost about the same as the training.
19/05/2003 at 20:14
Isn't it 30 QMD's in the consolidation year?
19/05/2003 at 21:22
The consolidation period can be as long or as short as you want although they recommend a year for all but the most experienced candidates.

They don't stipulate a number of QMD during this period but do state that you must have 20 pre training and 40 pre assessment. 50% of these should be as a leader or assistant, although with the current state of affairs this can be harder than you think. 8 days camping of which 4 should be wild .... oh and a valid first aid certificate.

And yes before you ask I do have my log book in front of me ;)

20/05/2003 at 20:17
I'd be interested to see some figures for the number of folks doing this, as almost everyone I know seems to be doin the ML at the moment, just wondering if the wheels are about to fall off the overladen bandwagon??
20/05/2003 at 20:21
It'd certainly be interesting Dave.

What are the implications of LOTS of people going through the course going to do the standards? Will it be devalued as more and more people get the Qual?

(I'm being rhetorical here, BTW, I don't believe that P-Y-B would lower the standards just because they are busy...)
20/05/2003 at 21:02
i think the organisers know that not everyone will complete the (get assessed) the ML scheme at whatever level they are doing. Looking at what it costs to get through the training someone is making lots of money from it!

21/05/2003 at 09:17
Well, there'll be even more in a couple of years time!

As of 2004 (not sure on exact date) anyone taking Scouts (of any age) into the hills will need to have undergone ML training. At the moment the plan is that they will still be assessed by Scout Ass. assessors for suitability, but the minimum standard of training will be an official ML course.

Once thats in place, I personally think it will be only a matter of time before the minimum qualification will be summer ML.

21/05/2003 at 09:31
The MLTB have an annual report which has all the figures you are after. Have got a copy at home which I could dig out. Interestingly the percentage of first time passes is quite high, higher than I expected anyway.

In my mind this will be down to either the quality of candidates or the quality of the assessment. I personally assume that it is the former as it is in the assessment centres own interests to maintain a certain level of assessment. As one assessor told me, they are the ones that sign the log book and heaven forbid something happens ten years down the line, they will be dragged into court to justify their decision.
21/05/2003 at 09:34
Also the introduction of the WGL qualification is going to encourage more people into the scheme than before.

Having said that, is having more qualified people a bad idea? I don't think so. The more the merrier in my opinion. I do agree with the points raised that the quality of assessment should be maintained and I'm sure MLTB will do everything in their power to ensure this.

21/05/2003 at 09:48
As a air cadet intructor and an ML summer holder I meet lots of people who are 'doing their ML' most of these people have done the training course but come up with all sorts of excuses for not doing the assessment.It is a big commitment in doing the QMD's but If you really want/need the qualification then you have to put in the work. A lot of these people I meet did training courses a long time ago (eg, 5 years) and complain that they can't get the days in. My way of thinking wether right or wron is if you can't get the days in over 2-3 years then you arent committed enough. I did 100+ days in 18-24 months (and that included F+M outbreak) and I'm married and also moved house during this time. In my local (wing) area I am the only qualified ML with another 10-15 trained and I was the last one to do the training. Worth doing but like I said big committment.
21/05/2003 at 09:53
Completion of a training course is not an indication of competence. People that say they are mountain leaders after completing a training course are not telling the truth!

Tis is the AIR Training Corps's official line:
From 1 April 2002 leaders of activities in mountain areas must have completed ML assessment. Leaders who have completed ML training but not assessment may be permitted - for a limited time - to lead activities in wi1ld country, provided that they registered with the Wing Adventure Training Officer before April 2002, and were then assessed as being "competent through experience" (CTE) before 1st April 2003

The CTE register is a temporary measure to allow experienced staff to continue running activities for a limited period. i.e. until they complete their assessment or retire from the Corps.

Personally I think it's bizzare that the these new rules have been bought in partly as a result of the Jonathan Attwell a scout aged 10 fell to his death on Y Lliwedd on an official scouting trip and the scouts still seeem to be doing 'in house assessments and then have only done a training course after that!

21/05/2003 at 10:31
Just thought I'd add my little bit.

I'm doing a split weekend Summer ML course this year, June and July in the Lakes.

I did the WGL Training course but felt it didn't offer me want I wanted due to the fact I was more interested in leading walks in the Lake District, which is mostly classed as mountainous terrain by the MLTB. Not covered by the WGL.
21/05/2003 at 10:55
Here we go again...

The Leader in question broke more rules than you can poke a walking pole at. If rules aren't being followed, then saying that the rules are wrong (for that reason) is ludicrous.

Would it have been netter if the leaser was an ML holder and then proceeded to ignore all the relevant rules and training? No.

Speaking personally, I feel that the introduction of a minimum standard of training follwed by an "in house" assessment is surely a positive thing.

John, did you get paid for doing your ML by the way?

We wont. In fact we will be substantially out of pocket.

Just a thought...

21/05/2003 at 11:16
Yes I did get paid, Dave Hudson is a civillian instructor and didn't. We boith attended the same assessment course.

I would happily have paid to do the course, completion of the ML summer scheme enables you to earn monay from yout skills so if you have motivation and you can be bothered you should be ble to get your money back by doing something you enjoy.

It's a shame the leader in question wasn't convicted of manslaughter, everyone that followed tis story knew where the blame should be laid bit, as usual, the lawyers wrangle over the finest detail and sew an element of doubt in the jury's minds and he gets let off.

21/05/2003 at 11:21
As for being out of pocket, i think that if you wish to lead guops in the hills then you should have the relevent qualification with which to do so.

Would you not take driving lessons and follow that up with a driving test just because it costs money. If you want to drive you have to learn and take a test and you accept it.
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