I'm new to camping out in winter need help please?

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pac man 2
08/11/2003 at 22:33
Hi,
I know a few guys have experience with winter camping please help me out.
Ok this winter I’m planning a semi epic (well to me it is anyway) around February time, I’m wanting to do at first 5 to 10 mile a day routes (maybe more at a push) walking and wild camping for up to 2 weeks. I will be staying in a tent (one suitable for winter) so I’m looking at somewhere that is more than likely not going to have deep snow (as putting up tents as you know can then be a horrendous). I know no snow is never guaranteed in winter but I really want to do this, so hear me out. I was thinking of Scotland as it has some remote places (which I want) but I’m worried that the weather can turn really nasty up there, don’t get me wrong I don’t mind winter weather but people say “there is no such thing as hill walking in winter in Scotland only mountaineering” so I should listen to this and as a winter newbie maybe wait to do Scotland in winter when I’m more experienced (unless there might be places suitable for a winter newbie). So guys come on help, where should I be planning in the UK what guide books to winter trails should I be looking at ect ect.
pac man 2
08/11/2003 at 23:04
I'm not really planning to camp up mountains and maybe not even go up in the day and really I'm thinking of low level remote-ish small-ish hills and trails through valleys camping this winter, what and where do you think?

By the way I have everything suitable for 4 season stuff apart from crampons and ice axe that's why I'm not planning any mountains too. Also as regards boredom I’m lucky I actually don’t mind my own company and I’m taking a radio :)

Some may say do a winter course thing is with winter courses (that I know of) is there geared towards the mountaineer and that's not really my thing in winter, summer yes :) what about the lakes, parts of Wales. I was even thinking of the moores but might be a bit boggy though…?
Alison Stockwell
08/11/2003 at 23:33
Don't be put off Scotland. You are more likely to get snow there than anywhere else in the UK, but how much is totally unpredictable. Sticking to hill trails rather than summits and keeping the legs resonably short to begin with is a sensible plan. Ideally you should phone daily for a weather and avalanche forecast. I have never had any trouble putting the tent up in the snow. Blizzards can be a problem depending on your tent.
Two weeks is a long time to go winter camping non-stop. I think the biggest problem in Scotland (or anywhere in the UK in the snow) will be drying out your stuff; unless you are very lucky, you are likely to get wet a lot. It would be prudent to plan your routes so you can get down within a few hours to somewhere to escape from the weather and dry out if necessary. If it was me I would plan for a drying out day every third day, but have escape routes prepared for the other days in case you need them.
pac man 2
08/11/2003 at 23:47
Sounds good Alison you think like me :)

ok regards wetness I'm taking a ortlieb dry bag ones that go inside a rac sac and EVERYTHING is going in it. Even tent if I can (hilleburg Akto) but if not I'll get another dry bag and all stuff that does'nt go in will go in that on the outside of the sac. I have gore-tex waterproof jacket and trousers, but yep I will take your advice and have a dry out day if needed.

Your right scotland is one of THE places to wild camp, what is the west highland way like in winter, (and is there re- supply and life nearby?

1) will I need crampons
2) Is it mainly flat (so could rule out crampons)
3) Is the route still visible in snow (to reduce getting lost)
pac man 2
08/11/2003 at 23:49
4) do moblie phones work ok along the west highlands way?
Jules aka Bat Girl
09/11/2003 at 00:00
If you need to rely on seeing the path not to get lost then you need to brush up on map reading.
pac man 2
09/11/2003 at 00:09
lol juile is this a general "take care" statement" or is it related to the WHW?

So far I've found out that it's 90 miles long so in 2 weeks I could with just walking 6 and abit miles a day do the lot! cool ;) And there's plenty of books on it, to books with Scale 1:100,000 maps of the whole route...this is looking good!

But is more a crampons route than B0 in winter?? And does the route lose visabilty in snow?
peter wells
09/11/2003 at 08:00
You have got to decide what your capabilities are and what your really want to do. In one posting you want to come to Scotland because of its remote areas and in another you talk about the WHH. These two are contradictory. The latter is very near the main road ( and rail) for a lot of the way. You are also concerned about losing the way if it snows. If that is the case don't go remote.
As a first timer in Scotland the WHH is an ideal introduction - especially if you are travelling alone. When you get to Fort William you can always consider, if time and energy are available , continuing to Inverness by the Great Glen Way.

And about getting wet, as much an issue as keeping dry what you have in your sac, is always ensuring you have something dry to wear after completing the day' walk and if this means puttng on damp clothing in the morning - so be it.
pac man 2
09/11/2003 at 14:02
Thanks peter, I did say remote-ish this time (being new to winter stuff). But is the WHW remote enough to be able to wild camp the route, meaning yes I will get comprehensive guide books and a 1:25,000 OS map of the entire route and study it before hand, I was thinking if getting

The West Highland Way Recreational Path Guide, Anthony Burton
ISBN - 1854103911

It has a 1:25,000 OS map of the entire route...any good, any other recommendations?
Ninja Marmot
09/11/2003 at 18:15
With regards to route-finding, listen to Julie and the map-reading advice. In a snowstorm with zero viz, even one of the usual motorway-stylee paths will be invisible and a familiar path and surroundings will be unrecognisable. Snow isn't just a pretty thing to tramp through, it can come at you horizontally and can be very disorientating. Same with winter fog. Your nav should be poo-hot in winter.

HTH
pac man 2
09/11/2003 at 18:41
Thanks Jennie I'm also taking a GPS, programming in daily way points (using a 1:25,000 OS map of the entire route) and then if visibility is hard this will then come in handy. Are Ice axes and crampons a must on any sections of the route, if so which parts and what's the gradient?
Ninja Marmot
09/11/2003 at 18:55
You still need to use the trad tools (map/compass) in case you have a battery failure or lose the darn thing though....

The prob with waypoints is that they don't show you the cliffs / rocks / streams that you'll end up falling off/in if you stray off course a bit - even a couple of degrees can get you in the sh*t. Suggest that at 'strategic' areas it may be good to set the WPT to the safe side of any hazards....then when you reach the WPT you know that the exact place is 100 metres due west etc. Then it's a relatively simple matter to pace out the short distance involved.
peter wells
09/11/2003 at 20:30
On the WHH there is very litle opportunity for wild camping. Most people camp within walking distance of the nearest hostelry.
There will be no need for ice axe or crampons on the route, you hardly ever go much above 1000 feet and most of the way you are following a well established track.
I can also visualise you being weighed down with equipment. Forget the GPSs - not essential - only really useful if high up in the clouds - unlikely if bakpacking. Use 1 to 50:000 maps - half the weight. Forget your waterproof bags. A good rucksack liner plus plastic bags are sufficient. The art of good backpacking is travelling light.
rewrite
09/11/2003 at 21:08
i think you might be best off on the west highland way - its a great route with as many diversions and multi-day trips as you like as well as having the essential support network for when all goes pear shaped.

the main problem with winter is the wet and cold, your dry bags aren't the problem - its your boots and clothing that bring snow and water into the tent and soak everything.

if you want remote and romantic then choose a drovers route with bothies - so much more comfortable - but if you want to 'do' the winter camping experience choose a route with the support you will need on your first trip in the snow. if the weather is naff for a week you will get bored and need some diversion - as well as a dry sleeping bag.

winter in scotland presents a formidable learning curve, you would be very well advised to take it a chunk at a time. if you go too hard then you'll probably not enjoy it and learn very little.

have fun, thats why its not work...
St Rick
10/11/2003 at 02:33
Hi Pac! I hiked the WHW during this summer's heatwave, so encountered nothing like the conditions you will during the winter. Having said that, I was amazed how the route goes through some of the highest country in the UK and remains almost entirely flat. It hugs the glens. There are spots on the Way where wild camping is permitted, one near Rob Roy's cave on Loch Lomond, and another by the river just north of the Inveroran Hotel spring to mind. But you can pitch a crafty tent just about anywhere. Peter is right - travel light. You can check out my site on this hike for more insider deails and deathless prose. www.trailjournals.com/whw
pac man 2
10/11/2003 at 20:11
Thanks guys helpfull as usual
captain paranoia
14/11/2003 at 18:16
captain paranoia
14/11/2003 at 18:17
d'oh! html error, but the link still works...
pac man 2
14/11/2003 at 18:21
what link I see nothin :P
captain paranoia
14/11/2003 at 18:26
the bit that's underlined, that says 'okay, I'm cheating...the picture is off-route'

that should be:

west highland way
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