Non-Shell Revelation

Was out at the weekend up Glen Lyon giving the Montane Extreme smock it's first winter outing (well late autumn).  Though it was a bit too mild for the jacket it was still a revelation.  I've TX-Directed it and after an hour of constant rain (wet enough to need waterproof trousers) the rain was still beading off and I was totally dry.  And what a great hood.

It got one outing last winter with a Blacks wicking top underneath - big mistake.  I wore it next to the skin this time - fantastic and warm to touch.

In the bag was a Paramo Torres for lunch stops (turned out to be too small so is going on Ebay) and a Paramo Aspira for constant rain (it was a gear testing trip really). 

Well the Torres came out of the bag for the lunch stop - though wasn't really needed, and though warm, it came up too small on the arms and too short over the smock - so it's off to Ebay for that one.  The Aspira may take it's place as the Belay Jacket or I might get a Buffalo Alpine or Hooded Belay.

Essentially though I was warmer and drier thank my friend in his XCR.  He kept the g-tex on due to the 70mph wind.

I'm now considering a revamp of my gear along the lines of:

Winter:

Montane Extreme Smock (TX-Directed) + Paramo Fuera Smock (TX-Directed) + overlayer Buffalo Alpine/Belay

Summer 

Montane smartwool t-shirt +  Fleece (Paramo hoodie?)+ Paramo Aspira

Anyone see any flaws in this idea?  Or have opinions?

sounds good ts. i assume you just tx'd the outside of the extreme?

i've thought about just wering it next to the skin but isn't that inconvenient in the pub, or is it a quick toilet visit to change?

Pretty much echoing what NPC and Ben say...

I abandoned Paramo waterproof stuff as  I found it far too hot inSpring and Autumn most of the time, let alone summer, but there again I'd have boiled alive in a Montane Extreme if I'd had it on this weekend, so maybe you'd get away with it.

And while soft shell stuff, especially when freshly proofed, will see off the worst, it will let water in under prolonged heavy fire, even when it seems to be beading.  With something like the Extreme, the pile layer will soak up a lot before you really notice the water has got through the outer layer.

Your winter suggestion of two soft shells seems a bit odd: why not just use a Paramo waterproof (which is as breathable as a soft shell, but fully waterproof) with suitable layering underneath to keep warrm?

Pete.

OutdoorsMagic Editor | jon@outdoorsmagic.com 

PC - the idea of the two windshells was that the fuera is pretty waterproof so combined with the Extreme's TX-ing it would be good enough. I think though you're right and the Aspira on top of the Extreme would do the job better. I may still take an extra layer - but suspect this will just be until I have the confidence to start leaving it out of the bag.

Parky - I just chucked it in the machine with tx-direct wash-in and it seems to have done the trick fine. Yeah it looked a bit poo in the pub, but a jumper in the car would solve that.

I suspect in summer the Aspira will be next to my skin. I got a Medium as it's more fitted - but will send off to Paramo who can apparently add several inches to the arms.

Of course the other wintering option would be to ditch the Torres (which is hapening anyway) and use the Aspira (maybe with t-shirt/cambia) for wet/general use and use the Montane Extreme for Belay duty.

I think I have too much gear.... still nice to have no room for a g-tex though

If you washed the Extreme in direct wash in would you not effectively be 'proofing' the pile as well as the pertex?  Isn't this against perceived wisdom or is the thing to be doing, only asking as I've just picked up a second hand bargain Extreme and was thinking of using Direct spray on the pertex outer only?

In theory yes.  In practice it either had no effect or a positive effect.

"is the thing to be doing?" -  good question

Not sure why it would wick backwards - there will always be a heat/pressure differential pushing the moisture away from the skin. 

I doubt it's really possible to waterproof pile anyway - the surface tension will break down at the first rub. 

Certainly worth an experiment.

PC - the idea of the two windshells was that the fuera is pretty waterproof so combined with the Extreme's TX-ing it would be good enough. I think though you're right and the Aspira on top of the Extreme would do the job better. I may still take an extra layer - but suspect this will just be until I have the confidence to start leaving it out of the bag.

An Aspira and an Extreme smock!  Bloody hell, you must run incredibly cold!  That combination isn't far off a down jacket for warmth and while a downie is great for standing around it's not something I like to do anything active in unless it's really cold, and if it's that cold then it won't be raining.

Beyond that I suspect what might happen is that after a while the top layer will wet out and then cling to the top of the next one, and a clinging wet surface won't allow the water to bead up and run off so it will soak through that too.  Paramo stuff works by having a dedicated pump liner that is not bonded to the outer: if you could get away with two layers of the outer (soft) shell then Paramo would be selling it to you already as waterproof, because the most common criticisms of their kit are it's too hot, too heavy and too bulky, and you'd get around all three by taking this approach.

 Back to layering, I am reminded of Buffalo 's claims for the Mountain Shirt, that it replaces 4 conventional layers.  Well, it does, but if you only want to replace one or two of them at any one point in time you're a bit snookered as the vents will only do so much.  Hacking up a big snow slope in the sun is hard, hot work, and with a minimum of an Aspira smock I'd find it pretty ugly going.  Even with a downie in the bag for standing about, I'm often down to a base layer in snow conditions. 

Pete. 

All sounds fair.

Thanks for the comments they're giving me the confidence to ditch a layer. I think my problem is that I've always been so cold/wet with g-tex that I have tended to take extra layers to change into or overlayer.

As I seem to be so much dryer with these combos. then less layers should be needed. I think that sounds a bit like the Paramo advert actually...

One Paramo Torres medium for sale - too small/not needed.... worn once...!

I'm veering towards:

winter wet day

Aspira as main jacket with or without base layer dep. on temperature and with Montane Extreme as a Belay Jacket.

winter dry day

Extreme smock on the base with Aspira for Belay duties only. No other layers!

Summer

T-shirt, Aspira and maybe Cambia Hoody in various combinations. Probably Aspira next to skin if too warm.

NB - I am a very cold person though get very sweaty when warm - hence the switch from g-tex.

Problem is I'm coming back to the old dilemma of do I really need the Extreme smock if the Paramo does the same thing and If I get a belay jacket that will suit summer and winter....

I agree with your last comment!  If you use both the Aspira and the Extreme as belay jackets you are going to have to buy both in an over-large size.  Try using the Aspira all the time and look for an over-jacket that is perhaps lighter and more packable than the Extreme.  Or maybe a jacket that is just dead cheap, like a ski jacket from Decathalon, or a TKMaxx reject?

Wallace - you can have it for £55 posted?

Problem is I'm coming back to the old dilemma of do I really need the Extreme smock if the Paramo does the same thing and If I get a belay jacket that will suit summer and winter....

The Aspira could reasonably be said to do similar duty to something like the Duality smock or a Buffalo Teclite shirt as far as insulation goes, but it's much cooler than an Extreme.  I'd agree with David that sizing the Aspira and Extreme to go over one another will mean they're a bit over-chunky for using on their own.

For a belay jacket I'd get something that's designed to pack away fairly small, like a Primaloft jacket that will weigh and bulk less than fibre-pile or fleece for the same insulation.  The Aspira is designed for wearing all the time so I'd use it that way and not worry about it as a belay layer.

Pete.