Carneddau Ponies

I am mentioning this with the hope that it gains some national publicity in your magazine.
For those that aren't aware, the wild Carneddau ponies are under threat.
Visit http://www.daveroberts.f2s.com/Gallery/Pony.htm for some info on them.
They are required to get £75 pound passports due to EU legislation (see the links on my page). Exmoor ponies have been exempted.

A further point I dont see answered anywhere on the net is that the NT own much of the land they graze on and what are they doing about it?
Ok, the NT rent land to farmers, who in turn cannot afford the new £75
passports for horses.
But that is no excuse IMCO.

They are classed in some quarters as a wild breed.

If they had wings, i'm sure that there would be much more support for them. And i am certainly against the fact that the RSPB have funded the movement of these animals from the Carneddau to near Llyn Efyrynwy. Ok, it's better than culling them, but any money should be spent on these creatures being preserved in their *natural environment*.

Nobody would consider that saving the rhino would involve bringing it to a reserve in another country. To protect any creature, one preferably needs to preserve it within its own habitat.

T Dave Roberts.

Sorry.
But can i add, that these ponies are as much of a part of a walk in the north carneddau as the wilderness, remoteness, promise of rock beyond vast grassy mountains and sea views.

Just in case anyone's wondering what this has to do with walking!

T Dave Roberts

I didn't know about this, when did it all kick off? I also wonder about other ponies, like the ones out on Mynydd Ddu.

What the heck do the ponies need passports for anyway?!

What about the New Forest? And there are ponies in Dorset on the Isle of Purbeck and in the Black Mountains and even in Sutton Park in Birmingham, don't know if they are all wild but they look pretty wild to me.

Read the articles now. Looks like the final decision will be taken by the EU.

All quite mad and unneccessary - and with only 400 or so ponies why can't something be done to raise the funds to pay for them?

I wonder why the NT are so quiet, too. Don't they regard these animals as part of the landscape they're supposed to be looking after on our behalf? Or are they too busy building the usual collection of carparks and teahouses to notice?

Jenny- apparently New Forest and Dartmoor/Exmoor ponies have 2 advantages - they've been recognised as "a breed" and have defined boundaries to their territory. It just sounds like they are more valued (ie. valuable) than the Welsh ponies.

The goats on Tryfan will be next. Or don't the French eat goat meat?

Partly, the probelm is down to the Assembly IIRC.
They decided the Carneddau (and Beacons as well) ponies are different to the Exmoor and other english breeds. So while the English authorities have ignored wild breeds, CArdiff have decided to insist on registration.

I think the assembly could well have ignored the ultimate requirement to register all ponies. And i think you hit it on the head Marcus, the law is probalby to prevent the French (and other horse meat eaters) from contracting a future form of Mad Nag Disease.

And the silence of the NT is worrying on this matter.

Adopt a Welsh pony? If it's just the cash that's the problem there are loads of ways it could be done.

When I worked down south we sponsored a bl**dy wallaby at the zoo!

Do you know if your Local Authority has a Biodiversity Officer (based in planning services). This sounds like a job for them!
After all, the UK signed up to the UN Convention of Biodiversity, and there should be a Local Biodiversity Action Plan (LBAP) of the area - this goes for the whole of the UK.

The main problem with the Welsh ponies (certainly those in the South) is that most are descendants of neglected/abandoned "escapees" and are not actually recognised as a distinct breed.

I think that there is only one regognised "Welsh" breed, that is the Welsh cob, which is much too valuable to be left wandering the mountains.

The RSPCA must take much of the blame for the attitude of the WA, they apply every year for grants to round up the "strays" on the Welsh hills, giving the WA the impression that there is no such thing as a "wild" Welsh pony, the herds consisting of abandoned and owned animals in need of "control!"

I am from a farming background and sorry to say this isnt news. There are in fact four registered breeds of welsh's A's which is a variation of the type you will see out on your walks, small ponies under 11h2, B's which you will rarely or ever see out as they are like mini thoroughbreds and wouldnt survive, c's and D's which are bigger and again you wouldnt often see out wild as too big. This started in the eighties with the Bodmin ponies losing status and they are now suggesting a limit of 12 creatures of livestock on a moor due to overgrazing. Dartmoor came next with the campaign starting in 1998 when Tavistock sales were running through colts at £2 and townies were buying them out of pity and keeping them in less than perfect conditions. Exmoor has a strict culling programme in force, it also removes its herds off the moors regularly. The price of their ponies remains high and they are slightly out of the loop. The Carneddau ponies would i imagine be like most other moor ponies and primarily be bred for meat, your right they have been down bred and are not pure and therefore virtually worthless. The passport policy is not new, we have been given years of warning it is on its way and its to stop outbreaks of equine flu etc. With regard to the NT people are only just realising how cunning they are. Not my favourite people, their rents are beyond the average farmers pocket so their properties get let to townies who fancy a spot of hobby farming or think it would be nice to be pauline quirk and get down to the land. Many many folk left their lands to the NT in the expectation they would remain within the country code, many would no doubt be turning in their graves with the policies undertaken by NT on hunting. Ok soapbox away but if you really want to save these ponies, find a benefactor or get together and purchase passports for them, shouldnt be that hard or alternative go to Hereford pony sales first and have a look see. You wont like it so be prepared.

I fully undrstand and appreciate your last statement Annie. I used to volunteer with a local animal rescue group, I got Meg my first BC from them. I ran their website for them and came into contact with a group running a horse and pony rescue in the west midlands. They opened my eyes to the Pony Sales at Hereford and Evesham ( ?? I think) and I attended one once where they purchased a group of "wild" ponies to save them from a trip to the knackers yard. I too was shocked by what I observed!

Thanks Tony, I have purchased simply hundreds of moor ponies over the years, they are not the sweet gentle ponies of thelwall pictures, they are WILD, they will kick you, do anything in self defence, its their survival to get away, so its not a job to be undertaken lightly. To even get a halter on one takes several people and its not a matter of the horse whisper technique that simply wont work. You need to run them through a cattle run and then force it on them. If you can at least halter break them they have a chance of finding decent homes as companions but that really is not what they are bred for. The government give no subsidy per head and the only people who will keep them are moor farmers as they have free grazing rights and even they in truthfullness wont keep many as they are taking valuable grazing from the mouths of their sheep and cattle whom the government do give them subsidy for. Its a difficult two way street, conservationists dont want the moors burnt of furze (an ancient custom we have undertaken for years to allow grass to grow and moorland not to be full of gorse)so they police it and instead the moor is clogged full and has no grass. Thats why you will see ponies out in harsh months (yet to come) with their mouths open dead in agony due to starvation and cattle in bogs with their ears cut off (yes if you cut the ear off the tag comes with it and you cant trace the farmer, who cant afford the time or be bothered to go out with a jcb and bring beast in. Farmers just cannot afford to feed these beasts, cannot or dont i am not gonna argue that but its horrific seeing them when you ride out. Its been suggested for years bringing the stallions off the moor like others moors and only allowing it out for a brief covering season each year. Many of the stallions out are not stallion material and are producing poor stock. Dartmoor did this some years ago and their prices are climbing steadily as is the request for exports. If these ponies were culled somewhat and a good stallion with papers sent out something might be salvaged. But the bottom line is these ponies have been no different to the sheep you see in fields, they are bred for meat, not for walkers pleasure. The moor farmers who own them need to cull out those not worthy of a breeding programme, pay passports for those that are out of the sale of rest and start asking proper prices for them. The end line is this is just farming.

always interesting to have a look at what the regulations actually say:

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/legislation/wales/wsi2005/20050231e.htm

Welsh Statutory Instrument 2005 No. 231 (W.21) -- The Horse Passports (Wales) Regulations 2005

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/legislation/wales/wsi2005/20050231e.htm

Even more confused after reading the regs!

I have an idea they're wild though i've never seen one 'wild', when i see them i respected them, and never walked closer than was necessary. I keep my distance from cows too! Don't trust any animal that's bigger than me, that i can't outrun.

I'm just hoping that common sense prevails with this issue, and a blind eye is turned towards the regs by the local authorities. A further complication is that many ponies will likely be wandering between two counties (border of Conwy and Gwynedd roughly marked by the main Carnedd ridge), and neither authority will want to take responsibiltiy.

passports just another con as always had markings and bits on vaccination certificate, so why need both it like the taxes on insurance it all crap i have a rescue carneddau pony they differ to sec a's alot and yeah she wild was bought buy a friend at the sales not the fair oaks another and was sold to here with20 others at meat money prices..except this foal s mother..

who is quite oldthe rest where a's with little dished faces and stockier

Excellent first post Sarah. Welcome to the forum!

Certainly gave me a "deja vu" moment!

Sad to see so many people on this forum treating these ponies like they're just commodities. If they're sick, put them down on the land they were born and bred. To send them off to the slaughter-house or even God forbid exported live to be murdered abroad is a monsterous thing to do.            We no longer need to eat meat - sorry it's true!! And those that just eat it for taste are selfish to the core.                                                                 Just yesterday I saw the tenderness shown to a foal by its mother - and now I find there are fellow walkers talking about these animals as though they were mindless nothings - just things to be abused as they see fit! Ugh, no wonder the world is still such a dark place to live. I thank my lucky stars every day that I was not born an animal in this uncaring, savage world.