Could TGO be improved?

TGO is a good magazine. But is it a great magazine ? Have only been aware of it for @ 18 months now, but I sometimes wonder where it is going. Will it just keep on repeating the same stuff over and over again, or are there any new directions for it to take?

I know it has found some fresh ground with the lightweight revolution, but what new type of features could be included?

In a recent thread I suggested that members of the public be loaned new gear to do some gear reviews. What would you like to see in the mag or are you perfectly happy with it the way it is?

p.s. I am NOT connected to TGO in any way

The magazines which I think are "great" are much more specific than TGO. To be great it would have to be called "Lightweight Backpacking Monthly" or similar. As it is we have three letters "TGO" whose meaning is not obvious, and when the meaning is revealed - "The Great Outdoors" - we are left with a title that could mean anything that isn't done indoors*. The variety of articles that fit under this broad title mean that the magazine will be quite appealing to many, which probably makes financial sense. Being very appealing to a few doesn't give the same returns, unless you can charge much more, which you probably can't in this area. The irony is that in my opinion the staff and some of the contributors are very focused and experts in specific areas.

JH (Which decoded is John Hesp)


*So vague is the title that the cover picture is usually a picture of a couple of people striding purposefully along - "This is a serious walking magazine". As somebody who already knows what the magazine is about, I'm not keen on these covers. I did think a better type of cover photo would include a tent to give the backpacking maessage, but this months cover persaudes me otherwise. On the other hand it does tell us that the magazine has a sense of humour.

The cover with a picture of the Lake District was good but could have left the casual browser in Smiths thinking it was a magazine on sheep forming. I guess it was also to "Country Walking" in appearance.

Ask a thousand people and get a thousand answers.For my fourpenneth,I find it very dry and serious .Unlike JH , I think that to focus in even more would only make it drier. A wider outlook for a magazine can give the readership a greater insight by combining other groups experieces with your own.
Having read and re-read JH post I am confused as to what he would like to see on the cover, perhaps naked ladies mud wrestling outdoors would intice a certain type of clientele but once they open the cover they would not buy it again.Its a walking mag which touches on other outdoor pusuits but its main clientele are walkers.So what is wrong with a picture of people walking or i think more often scrambling (adds drama) on the front.

I just take it as a name that has grown up over the years, like GQ, VIZ, SFX, 2000AD, any magazines with "PC" in their title that refuse to include Macs. But hey, I don't buy Top Gear magazine and get anoyed that there isn't much in it about Armani suits. Life is too short, and there is too much to experience.

As to what could be improved, I believe Cameron asked the question himself recently in another thread. From some of the recent postings, maybe mudwrestling between argumentative posters would be more appropriate ;)

I'd be betting on PW. All for charity of course.

heh heh, Don,t think PW would fancy mud wrestling with me no matter how argumentative I,ve been today. (am very bored sat at home next to toilet after poisoning myself with a bbq last night. so apologies for being too spikey)

I know this might sound odd coming from me, but I am wondering if there is too much space being devoted to gear. After all, we now have the usual gear reviews and the lightweight reviews ..

.. but I'm probably wrong.

TGO should be congratulated for really pushing the lighweight concept. They'll need to keep this up for a couple of years or so.

Ideally I think the cover photo should reflect what the magazine represents to me, and this would be something like a single or pair of backpackers in front of their tents cooking their meals (this months cover has the mandatory walkers and a joke of a tent on a mountain top). Although two people walking does give a hint at what the magazine's about, it simply isn't visually interesting, and I'd be suprised if anybody browsing in Smiths grabs the magazine off the shelf on the strength of this. After all they've probably passed through crowds of people walking to get to Smiths. A picture of a person walking doesn't make me think "I want to get out walking"; a picture (such as we had a couple of months ago) of the Lakeland Fells does. I would have thought it would also generate more sales if the title were more descriptive.
.......

It certainly is true that a magazine doesn't have to have a narrow focus to be great - National Geographic for instance - and of course all the magazines with astronomical circulations have to have a fairly broad focus in order to capture a large market. I'm just not interested in that though. The info has to be either spread wide and thin, or narrow and in depth; I prefer the latter.

For instance, we have a dozen or so walks mapped out for us in each issue. If I want walks but am unable to dream up my own (and lets be fair, some people would rather follow instructions) I can find such instructions everywhere - internet, newspapers, other magazines, books etc....
This is what I would call wide and thin info - it's everywhere, and not really very interesting. I've never leapt out of my chair shouting "YES!!" when reading one of these walks, but I have done when reading Jim Perrin or Cameron's editorials. I've also leapt out of my chair shouting "NO!!" after reading Cameron's editorials, but this also shows a level of interest.

Of course, what I want from a magazine is probably very different to everybody else, and probably commercial suicide.

John

Personally, I agree with JH that the walks or routes section is superfluous.

I like the features on trails in foreign climes however, and woud like to see more of this.

TGO challenge is an excellent idea - should be more of these

Mike Harding ??

The gear reviews are appallingly presented (IMO)

some new regular features would make it something more to look forward to for me

To be honest I'm moving away now from these walking magazines to publications like AT, and that new Travel mag for 3 squid. Also I like Wanderlust, excellent articles, lots for your money.

I'm afraid both TGO and Trail can't justify the cover price. Not counting the ads sometimes there is very little on offer.

TGOs layout is also very outdated to appeal to new readers, doesn't bother me but it looks a bit amateurish.

Well I'll confess to having read TGO every month for about 25 years, and I've subscribed for about the past 15, so I clearly think it's doing enough to maintain my interest! It has gone through some good and bad patches in that time, and at points I probably continued to buy it out of habit, but having tried most of the outdoor/walking/climbing titles it's the one that consistently wins my allegiance.

Right now I'd agree that the walks/routes section is superfluous - I like articles that whet my appetite for a new area, home or abroad, not "turn left, cross the stile" kind of directions. And perhaps there's a bit much gear right now with "standard" and "lightweight" elements, and the fairly recent additon of women-specific reviews (and no ladies, I'm not for a minute saying you shouldn't have them, just that it's another area where the gear content has expanded).

But overall I reckon the mix of features is pretty good and presented in a reasonably in-depth way - be it walking areas, people's trips and achievements, campaigning issues, techniques, or gear. I'd like to see a bit more crossover into other activities that might interest walkers - it happens occasionally with features on mountain biking or sea-kayaking for example, but I reckon there's scope for more.

And I can't honestly say that I've noticed the gear reviews being "appallingly presented" but I do think they're a great deal more consistent and informative than certain other magazines! ;-)

Admittedly I rarely ,if ever follow a route out of a mag or anywhere else for that matter(nowadays,anyway). That is not to say that I dont get ideas for what to incorprate in my walks from the mag routes , many features and articles present me with ideas also ,and then I look at a map and develop my own around somewhere I fancy seeing.
So are routes superflous ,not sure,if they were not there how would beginners know the possabilities,only the other day somebody commented to me that he would like to take photos of the mountains but didnt really know where to go.
It would be nice to see the mag in general freshened up a little. Its hard to put my finger on it exactly but its just a little "tired".
The gear reviews seem slanted , the reviewers from all the mags seem to have their own favourite brands and unless there is a glaring differance in product tend to recommend their favourite brands version.The tests may be independant but it doesnt always feel to be so ,once you regulrily read the reviews.
Some new regular features would be nice, maybe a walk/scramble from a joe publics view.
The MH page is as dire as the others and its probaly time for new writers across the board. Its almost like reading afootball programme at the front where first the manager makes his excuses and then the president gives him the support of the board in the next article, if y,know what I mean.

I like the gear reviews of tgo and they are a world apart from the ones at Trial.
The recent addition of Judy's kit-for-birds is brilliant and I was so glad that she had women of different shapes for the sports bra issue as one reviewer with a (say) 34A bust can NOT tell we larger-breasted ladies what is supportive/useful or not.

"At the big sheep turn left" routes aren't needed IMO but please can we instead have an overview of an area like is sometimes done for foreign climes rather than exact routes?

Once a year Mike Harding is brilliant but the rest of the time he's just woffling.

"Once a year Mike Harding is brilliant but the rest of the time he's just woffling".

which year was that??

Have to agree it is a waste of a good page.

Many a thing said in jest can appear to be offensive to others, it just isn't worth wading through the bad wittisims in the hope of finding a good one.

I think Matt has hit just the right level for me. I really don't go for the routes. I do like reading about new areas that are just waiting for me to disvoer them. I kind of agree with the view thta would like more on international walking options.

What is very good about TGO is that it is something to read - as opposed to something where you are really looking at photos.

As for Mike Harding? Sometimes he completely defeats me - other times I do think he is very funny.

You pays your money and takes your choice I suppose.

I'd be betting on PW. All for charity of course.

Hey.... wanna fight?!



:)

I like gear reviews, and I like the way CT and Judy do them, so I read those first.

I don't think I've ever read a route suggestion, but I'm sure there are lots of peeps who enjoy them, and I think they must be a great help to people starting out.

I don't read Jim Perrin (sacrilege, I know...) or Mike Harding or Colin Prior. I very much like Andrew Terrill's stuff, and I normally read the editorial.

Hmm... looking at that list, it seems I'm only reading half of it! I suspect that what I'm looking for in TGO is not simply articles on things I'm interested in but also regular 'contact' - albeit at a distance - with other people who share a common outlook in relation to things that are dear to my heart - the hills and mountains, and the joy of feeling part of them that comes from wild camping, and the utterly amazing experiences to be had out there.

I'm actually glad that TGO focuses exclusively on walking (and backpacking). I can't think of any other publication where I can expect to find really interesting and quite specific walking/backpacking related kit discussed on a fairly regular basis, and I can't help but think that if the magazine were to expand its remit to include other, related hobbies then the more esoteric kit-related bits would have to go, in the competition for limited space. Having said that, though, I do realise that in order to survive in what seems to be an extremely competitive market the financiers may eventually decide to make that sort of change.

I'm not sure how it could be improved, although I'm sure there are ways. It's an interesting question.

At the end of the day, I suppose it's a niche product. Stepping back and looking at the direction things appear to be taking in the commercial world generally, it seems to me that large corporations are gradually buying up niche products and watering them down so that eventually they produce something (maybe even anything!) commercially viable that appeals to the lowest common denominator, and is of little or no interest to the minority who had a special interest in a small subject. I suppose TGO will eventually go the same way, but I, for one, will mourn it when it does.

Just to clarify PW, since it may be my earlier comment you're referring to, I wasn't suggesting that TGO should "expand it's remit to include other, related hobbies" in any sense that they should take a sizeable amount of coverage away from walking. No, walking/backpacking should remain the focus - but there are complimentary activities which imo would merit an article from time totime to spark ideas for other ways people can reach and enjoy our wild places, quite possibly in combination with walking. It might be an "inspiration" article based on someone's journey, or a "getting started" article.

For example I'm sure there's been a snow-shoeing article in the past, presented as an extension to winter walking. Or sea-kayaking as a means of reaching some fantastic secluded coastal wild-camping spots and possibly peak-bagging from them - how feasible is it, what would I need, which organisations would help me? That sort of thing. Other activities that might be of interest could be mountain biking/cycle camping, climbing, caving, paragliding perhaps, cross-country skiing, dog-sledding perhaps?

TGO has covered some of these in the past but from memory I'd be surprised it it amounted to more than 1 or 2 articles a year. I don't think it would overpower the core content if that could be stretched to maybe 5 or 6, i.e something every other month - but sure, if people want more depth or detail than that then it should come from buying Kayaking Monthly or whatever...

Just a thought though - what else can an outdoors magazine, particularly a "hillwalking & backpacking monthly"?

From basics - there's the body, the gear (selection and using), the routes/places to go, photography or otherwise recording the event, and feedback. I'm just amazed that the crews can get enough to fill a magazine each month.

Put feet on ground;
repeat
move feet in direction of destination;
until destination is reached;

Just look at the number of books in the outdoors shops, there are very few on just hiking, most are on routes, technical climbing, kayaking, etc.

I was just expressing my view generally, Matt, and didn't have what you wrote in mind in particular, although it did remind me of similar things I've read before when this topic has come up.

I don't think there's a right/wrong answer: just various points of view.

Personally I think its as bad (well, maybe a bit better) than all bad magazines.

I've enjoyed the Colin Prior articles (though they go over my head), some articles are quite interesting to pass time, the routes are pretty irrelevant (I live in Cambridgeshire- such a long way from most of the locations, I dont have time to decide which one to do when I do get away).

Mike Harding is a bit strange... I found Bob's podcast with him quite interesting but his articles are a bit beyond me (though my Dad, a 50yr old thinks he's a legend and forever tells me of the time he saw MH live, he talked for 3 hours and had the audience peeing themselves with laughter)

As for the gear reviews... I value some of Cameron's knowledge very highly, but otherwise take reviews with a big pinch of salt. TGO are clearly in bed with some brands- there's no way that a certain brand can be excellent at ever garment they make and average/poor reviews probably put some people off buying some much better than average pieces of kit!

More photos needed. I'd like some good photos- like a TGO/National Geographic crossover...