Evil scum of the earth

yay!! statistics, damned lies and lies.


give me numbers. lots of numbers. now what answer would you like? or would you prefer a selection?


ouch! i've just sustained a 100% rise, yes! 100% for personal injury today (nasty things, paper cuts)

That is the problem with statistics. They are very unreliable as they are commissioned by a party/group with a vested interest and are determined according to which outcome they require.

Secondly, statistics are used "selectively" and can be read in completely different ways to support/deny the desired viewpoint being supported or disproved.

Incidentally, we too are plagued by illegal off roaders in our area and it IS getting near "epidemic" proportions!

An interesting thought occurs.
I have just brought a landrover, I hillwalk, lead in the mountains and mountain bike and consider myself a responsible user of the countryside.
However I quiet like the idea of taking my shiny new landrover of road, but theres a problem, I'm strugling to find any information on where I can leagaly and responsibly do it.
Now if I as what I consider a responsible user of the countryside are having problems, people with less respect for the envirinment have no chance.

nigel, try a google with "landrover club". i'm sure you'll find somethig amongst the millon hits.

Nigel if you join something like the series and 90 Landrover club they organise off road events at taylor made venues all over the UK

I'm happy to give you the contact details, most course have a shiny course and a battered model course to ensure you don't knacker it completly:)

Thanks guys,
thepoint I was making though was that if info on "acceptable" routes with minimal environmental impact was readily available there would be even less excuse for inconsiderate 4x4 drivers to destroy the countryside.

Nigel, there is plenty of info on fundays and also some info on unsurfaced vehicular rights of way available on the net. the majority of clubs don't publish information on the lattter as they don't want to encourage indiscrimante use of these rights of way. The clubs usually have rights of way officers who check the routes with the definitive maps held by councils as not all routes are shown on OS maps. That way they can also check for any temporary Traffic Restriction Orders etc. The advice for anyone wantng to use these routes is to join a club, you could do the research yourself but as it's advisable to always go with someone else joing a club makes sense. FWIW I own Land Rover and have been to many off-road days on prviate which are really good but have never driven on green lanes as it doesn't really appeal to me.

county councils publish ways with grid references (well surrey does anyway)

Nigel, Land Rover should have offered you a half days land rover experience off-road driving course to show you how to be safe, sensible and reasponsible and point you in the direction of approved off-road play sites etc. Chase up your dealer.......

Regarding statments about my use of the word catergorical maybe that was a bad choice but i did work for one of the agency's that managed these rights of way in Surrey for a number of years and still do work within earshot of greenlanes reguarly. I am consider i am well placed to judge the issue for myself and offer my opinion acordingly. Therefore i don't like my opnion to be rubbished by people who have NO experience of the issues.

It is very difficult to juggle the interests of 4x4's, motor bikes, mountain bikes, horse riders, walkers etc. and i can assure you all users groups have their idiotic element.

> Therefore i don't like my opnion to be rubbished by people who have NO experience of the issues

Ah, there you go again, making another rash, exaggerated statement. Of course we have SOME experience of the issues, it just may not be as extensive as yours.

It's true that there are idiots in all walks of life. It's unfortunate that one idiot in a powerful 4x4 can do an awful lot of damage in a short space of time. I can't see the same damage being done by a single idiot on an MTB, or on foot.