Pyrenees - GR10 or GR11

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clare H
28/02/2011 at 09:38
Hello People

I am planning to walk either the GR10 or the GR11 in mid to late June. From my researches I know that the GR10 is greener, wetter, much busier, has more ascent and descent and is better marked than the GR11. The GR11 is wilder, more remote, need to carry food for three days at times, rougher terrain and less well marked.

I get the impression that some people think the GR10 is pretty tame. The problem is that I can't get an impression of just how tame it is. Is it like the Dales Way - where the footpath is visible pretty much all the time, extremely easy and it's mostly busy or is it like the Cumbrian way where you still have to actually make the occasional navigational decision all by yourself? Or is it much tougher than that? I am not a climber, just a walker and don't mind the odd scramble but I will be alone for a lot of the time so I need to not end up having to scramble along thin ledges with huge drops by myself.

Just how tricky is the GR11?

I will be walking with my boyfriend for about 2 weeks but will probably be solo for the rest of the time, carrying camping gear. I don't want to walk a Dales Way type path and I want to wild camp as much as possible, rather than stay in villages.

Is there anyone who has walked bits of both who can give me a steer here?

Thanks in advance.

Clare
Edited: 28/02/2011 at 10:43
ed h
28/02/2011 at 11:10

I have walked sections of both; challenging terrain on either side really - and lots of variants so you can avoid sections if you wish, or make up alternates. I have always found the French trails pretty easy to follow....except when you get into towns. You will need a bit more navigation on the GR11, but the maps sets are pretty good.

The French have 'traditionally' been hut-to-hutters - no bad thing and makes food less of an issue....the Spanish side is less like that.

Given the choice I would go for the GR11 myself - I like the  idea of drier weather and also enjoy the laid-back attitude of the Spanish (even though I speak relatively fluent French).

Matt will be along soon to disagree with me I expect

clare H
28/02/2011 at 11:24
Yep, I like the idea of the drier weather and more chorizio and beans too. My heart says GR11 but my sensible side says GR10. (actually that means that I say GR11 and my boyfriend says GR10, and I don't want to get in trouble for making a stupid decision when we get stuck on a ledge).

"A bit more navigation on the GR11" means I might lose the path now and then or means it's actually invisible most of the time and reliant on map compass work?

I had a look at the Prames maps which people say are good and there is hardly any detail compared with what the luxury of OS.

Edited: 28/02/2011 at 11:30
ed h
28/02/2011 at 11:40

Very very occasionally on the bits I have done - the paths are pretty obvious - have a look on Google Earth.

If you get lost - blame him

You won't get OS quality I am afraid - the Editorial Alpina maps are pretty good too.

For some nice web-based mapping for the Spanish side take a look at:

http://sigpac.mapa.es/fega/visor/

Edited: 28/02/2011 at 11:41
pedro (el magnifico)
28/02/2011 at 15:37

I did a crossing  fom Atlantic to Med  mainly on the GR11  but I started and finished on  the GR10 because I wanted  to paddle. I also diverted to the GR10 around Cauteret since  I knew the Odessa area well and I wanted   to visit  the Neouvielle  Lakes. The GR11 waymarking is fine and navigation is relatively straight forward. I only lost the track twice, once in the Basque country heading for Ochogavia when the mist came down  and I had a choice of tracks , most made by sheep and one the GR11.  Just took a compass bearing and all ok. Other time was climbing to the col from La Guingueta. No idea where the path went, but having been warned by the guide book I just headed for the 'trees' and eventually the GR 11 cared to join me again.  I don't recall any nasty ledges to fall off.

I chose the GR11  mainly for the same  reasons as you specified, drier weather, wild camping   but also wine included with meals in restaurants. I do not regret it. Whilst on the GR10 I only met one couple doing the whole thing  and none on the GR11 side. I did however twice meet germans doing the GR11 east to west since that is the way the german guide book speciifes the direction of travel.

If doing the GR11 the best map set is:

http://www.cordee.co.uk/CMM114.php 

I only had to carry food for two nights maximum , no big issue. I understand that on the GR10 in the Ariege you have to load up for  quite  a few nights.

If you message me I can send you  photos.

clare H
01/03/2011 at 06:47
Thanks restless for the sigpac maps, these digital maps are amazing!! Really interesting to switch from map to arial. It looks surprisingly quite green and lush.

And thank you el magnifico. That's really reassuring that the path is mostly clear to follow. And that the wine is there, as that was actually my main motivation for going to the Pyrenees rather than Scotland this year. I'd love to see your photos and have messaged you.
Gneiss Boots
01/03/2011 at 07:08
I did 10 days on the GR10 and would not descrivbe it as like Dales Way but then I picked the centre section (exact details elude my addled brain and I am separated from my guide book at the moment). Some very nice walking, great camping including some campsites. My trip was in August and we would see 1 or 2 a day but certainly never felt too busy.
Steve Woodward
01/03/2011 at 11:03
One thing to consider is how good you are at walking in blazing sun. Personally it's something I am not brilliant at not least because it means all your waterproofs and warm gear ends up in your pack rather than being worn. In the valleys in particular you can find yourself walking in unrelentingly strong sun that can make the thought of a bit of healing cold and rain can start feeling quite attractive. The good thing though is that the two aren't massively far apart so if you get the urge you aren't irrevocably commited to one or the other. It might not be a purist approach but there's nothing to stop you thumbing on one of the roads crossing the frontier.
philip lenaghan
01/03/2011 at 12:41

I'd go for the GR 11 too as I find the GR10 too well travelled and waymarked especially the central section which is why there are often people lost on it as they have no maps.  Also if you intend staying in refuges occasionally it's a lot more relaxed on the spanish side. I've often ended up chatting to like minded people over a beer before dinner whereas on the french side they're often a bit uptight and serious.

If you're doing the whole shebang then Hondarribia is a great starting point as it is a real traditional basque village. Although if you want to start from the actual beginning it will entail a few extra km to start at the lighthouse.

Regarding maps the GR11 guide mentioned by Pedro is good. Editorial Alpina maps are OK if you are used to them but they have no topographic details and sometimes show paths that don't exist or don't show paths that do. This is a problem with a lot of Spanish maps which is why I often have 2 or 3 different maps for each region I go to. The IGN maps on sigpac are good but do not have the long distance paths marked. The Rando-Editions at 1:50 000 are good as they show the GR11, GR10 and HRP so you can chop and change between the 3 if you wish.

Steve Woodward
02/03/2011 at 10:03
On maps I bought myself a couple of Alpina ones and decided they weren't up to the job. The rando editions ones are much, much better - it makes you realise just how spoiled we are with the OS.
clare H
02/03/2011 at 10:24
Thank you everyone, most helpful. Especially the map advice. Philip, the Sigpac digital maps do show the GR11 if you expand the map to the highest level and their detail is better than the Prames maps that I already have. Although the Prames "set" that I bought turns out to only cover Aragon, which is a bit annoying. I did think I had found a bit of a bargain for the whole route! I'll go back to Stanfords and see if I can compare the Rando-Editions (£100 just on maps!) with the Altair that Pedro suggested.

Definitely going to do the GR11 now. Train to Paris, dinner in Paris, sleeper train to Hendaye and then weeks up there and out there with the birds at dusk. Can't wait!

I'm going to have to post my solo tent to whatever point on the route my boyfriend leaves me, so that he can take my much heavier 2 person tent back with him. Not carrying that thing around with me! Maps too, I suppose. Organize, organize, organize.....

Thanks all.

philip lenaghan
02/03/2011 at 13:55
Clare you don't need all the maps. Just get the first couple and pick up the rest as you need them en-route. A little tip for the train. From Hendaye don't continue onto Irun, get off at Hendaye and then walk along the bay to the port at Hendaye then catch the boat across the bay to Hondarribia - they run every 15 mins and It costs about 1 euro. If your boyfriend is with you at that time I would suggest staying a night in Hondarribia if time allows. A great lively little place (one of my favourites - I go there 2 or 3 times a year) and it would be a shame to miss out on the Pintxos - basque tapas but far superior to anything found in Andalucia - and some great restaurants which would be a great start for the trek.
clare H
02/03/2011 at 14:04
Okay! Risky though, too much good food and the trek may never start. Thanks, it looks lovely.
pedro (el magnifico)
03/03/2011 at 09:53
clare H wrote (see)
 Train to Paris, dinner in Paris, sleeper train to Hendaye and then weeks up there and out there with the birds at dusk.



The overnight train from Paris to Hendaye disappears from all timetables  after the 10th April.  After extensive research to find out why  I drew a blank  so asked the railway guru: www.seat61.com

 His response was:

This is happening all too often.  Due to engineering works, trains are 'closed for sale' without explanation and just disappear from the systems when the train should run daily.

95% of the time they reopen for sale once the French infrastructure operator has sorted itself out.  Occasionally they are cancelled.  But of course, looking at the online systems, poor passengers have no idea which will happen!

This train should be daily all year, but could be cancelled.

Best of luck !

Edited: 03/03/2011 at 09:53
clare H
03/03/2011 at 12:18
Thanks for looking into all that Pedro, I will keep an eye on it. The Rail Europe site says that tickets cannot be booked on that route more than 3 months in advance, so perhaps that is something to do with it. If there is no train I will take a boat to Bilbao. There are plenty of ways to avoid Stanstead.
philip lenaghan
03/03/2011 at 13:17
If you're feeling adventurous you can walk from Bilbao to Hondarribia following the GR 123 and GR 121 along the coast. I just had a family in the hotel who usually get the night train and it wasn't posssible this year due to works. Something to do with the upgrading of the line to Bordeaux I think.
Lee Gardiner
20/03/2011 at 21:38
Don't want to change your mind now your looking forward to the GR11 as the bits I've walked were great. However... I say bits because I made the traverse by linking bits of both. I had planned to follow the HRP but sometimes spent longer on the GR11 (often to make up time as it's generally faster) and sometimes spent extra time on GR10 so I could drop into french villages I wanted to see, or took direct paths so I could see certain peaks again like Pic du Midi. I can understand wanting to do a route but mixing makes a really varied experience and makes it your own trip
clare H
20/03/2011 at 23:08
Hi Lee, that is very true and I will be investigating a bit of that. If only (as a previous poster suggested) to get a nice bit of rain or damp mist now and then. However, for the times when I am walking alone I would like the security of believing that a few other people are on the route that day in case I have a mishap. That puts me off doing cross- traverses which are more likely to be empty. I just don't have that level of confidence (or experience).
Stuart Bowman
22/03/2011 at 22:51

Not sure why you haven't enquired about the HRP. In my (admittedly) limited experience, the HRP can be an excellent option, has lots of wild camping as well as refuges and would certainly provide some wilderness but is not all as scary as it may sound. As you will have seen the GRs involve a lot of up and down as the valleys run north-south while you're walking west-east.  With the HRP you tend to go up and stay up, well I generalise!

On the eastern edge of the Pyrenees around Canigou, HRP is miles better than either GR (imho!)

Andy Howell's excellent website (Must be this way) has great info on the HRP in its central part. 

Also, great to see you using trains and boats. I've done this over the last couple of years, all positive. 

PS do your research about refugios in Spain, many are simply rotting hulks stinking of p*** with no facilities. 

clare H
22/03/2011 at 23:33
ha.. yes, I had gathered that "refugios" are often cow sheds or former cowsheds, no longer even good enough for cows. I have vague memories from about 10 yrs ago of walking down into a damp green glade where a French Monastery emerged through the glooming and the monks cooked me poulet au riz et herbes... somewhere near the med end of the GR11. I realize that I need to adjust my expectations a little.

(Obviously it couldn't have been the GR11 if it was a French Monastery, but I started in Spain so I am not quite sure where I was, which probably speaks volumes about my navigation skills - or my memory - or both).

Thanks for the link to Andy Howell's site, looks great and i shall have a good read. I didn't ask about the HRP because, as you guessed, it sounds scary - but I shall look. Just to give you a true picture of my feebleness when it comes to rocky steep bits, I walk around Goredale scar rather than up it!

I've always travelled by train and boat where possible, not so much for the greeness of it but for the fun. I like to feel the time zones slipping by as the track passes underneath me. Boats and trains are also great places to settle into a book. I got through the whole of Moby Dick on a stormy crossing to Bergen, with the North Sea crashing against the windows, the sky lit by oil rig flames and interspersed with ball room dancing on a wildly sloping ballroom floor. Beats planes for fun quite easily.
Edited: 22/03/2011 at 23:38
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