C2C

I am starting the C2C on the 29th this month taking 12 days to complete. I know I can take a high level variant from Grassmere over Helvelyn or St Sunday Crag but are there any others that (weather depending) I should make along the way to really get the best out of it?

You are starting the day I hopefully finish. On the day from Rosthwaite to Paterdale I'm also hoping to go over helm crag which involves negligable extra height gain but is supposed to be well worth it.

I'm not really aware of any others

Oh and I forgot to mention going up red pike from Ennerdale and along the ridge rather than the valley bottom.

Hi there,

Another one occurs in Ennerdale, where, instead of following the apparently interminable track through the woods to the Black Sail Youth hostel, you can strike left up to the ridge and take the High Stile alternative. If the weather is good I'd highly recommend that one, as I don't have words to begin to describe just how tedious and unending that forest track becomes.

Have a great time on the C2C, and very best of luck :)

Snap...

i have walked the C2C thirty-six times in the last fifteen years and have discovered many minor improvements to Wainwright's original route. Details may be found on my website

www.walkwithwestacott.com

Leaving Ennerdale follow the road ENE around past Croftfoot to the footpath at OS89 099 167 which passes Flouten tarn. from flouten tarn climb up to Great bourne then follow all along the highstile ridge to Brandreth. This avoids that boring walk along all those Christmas trees. but be aware that there is a farmer who makes every effort to stop you using that footpath to flouten. There is a path from the car park up Herdus to Gt bourne but I have never found it. You should also be fairly fit, last time I took a group of people on this route I nearly killed them and it took us over 9 hours. "However if you survive this the rest of the C2C is easy", Their words not mine. There is a water supply near Little Dodd.
Hope you enjoy it

Bryan is right about the farmer who prevents you from using the path from Whins Farm to Flouten Tarn. As a Nat Park Vol Ranger responsible for that area, I obviously can't go into details, but if I was you I would avoid that path at all costs.

It's much better to take the other path that Bryan mentioned, which follows Rake Beck up to Great Borne. You'll find the start of it signposted at NY109159, on the bend of the road. This will lead you along the ridge to Starling Dodd, Red Pike, and the rest of the High Stile ridge before dropping down to Haystacks, and along to Honister Hause.

I have never walked from Whins Farm to Floutern Tarn but am surprised that, in a national park of all places, a farmer can get away with actively discouraging walkers from using what, according to the Explorer map, is a right of way.

Perhaps Mr Tiplady, the National Park Offiicer, should turn his attention to this problem rather than upsetting the white, midde-aged, middle classes who, traditionally, have been the backbone of the national parks movement.

He should persuade the Ramblers' Association's Kate Ashbrook, who is splendidly white and middle-class, to sort the problem out as she so successfully did with Nicholas Hoogstraaten when he obstructed a public footpath.

Lorraine,

I'm not sure why you can't go into details about the Whins Farm affair, but it is a famous problem in Ennerdale. I've just found an illuminating reference to it (and the bloke in question) which people really should know about - is there a good reason why I shouldn't post it here?.

Regards

Hugh - I'm certain that Mr Tiplady is fully aware of the problems and that everything has done been done by the Nat Park to resolve the long standing problem.

Geoff - I can't go into details because of the fact that I am a Vol Ranger and can't divulge the information, as what I know may not be in the public domain. As far as I'm aware, you aren't a Vol Ranger, so as a member of the public I assume that you can post whatever you like on a public forum.

Right then, just wanted to check because I've peed off more than one forum admin before now...
I found 2 references, the first is over a year old but relevant as background:-
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On 13/1/04 a West Cumbrian sheep farmer has surrendered himself to police after more than three months on the run because a row over a footpath on his land. Thomas Ireland (48) of Whins Farm, Ennerdale, is now in custody at Durham jail, where he will spend two weeks for contempt of court. He went on the run to avoid imprisonment after repeatedly breaching an injunction preventing him from blocking footpath on his farm, which he maintains is not a right of way. A county court judge in Carlisle found him guilty of contempt of court in October after he failed to appear to answer any charges, and issued a committal order for 14 days. When the police raided his home they seized a number of firearms. They also revoked his gun license and charged him with possessing shotguns.
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and the second is a forum post of 25 Apr 2004 from the BMC:-
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At approx 0930 whilst trying to find and follow the footpath shown on the 1:25000 running from the lake shore to the minor road by Whins farm. The path was not clear on the ground and initially blocked by a fence with some corrugated iron across it to prevent access. We negotiated this without causing any damage and followed the line of the path into a field by an old barn. Although the lane was 2m from the field edge it became apparent that there was no safe way of exiting the field - two barbed wire fences a few feet apart with barbed wire zigzagged between them - so we decided to retrace our steps. At this point a man appeared and became very abusive, shouting obscenities and demanding - in a very intimidating manner - to know what we were doing on his land. I tried to explain that there appeared to be a right of way crossing the field and we were trying to get to the lane beside the field. He became very irate and shouted further obscenities. Fearing further confrontation we felt that further attempts at rational discussion would be futile so we apologised for disturbing him and asked him how we could most easily leave his property. He informed us that the footpath had not existed for years and he couldn't understand why all these people kept trespassing on his land. The man was extremely aggressive and the encounter very unpleasant. His suggestions of how we should have left his property were also anatomically impossible.
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Not worth spoiling the walk against odds like this, anyway there is no problem with the routes from near Bowness Knott car park
which are better imo.
Regards

Just as a matter of interest it is a bridal path, with a footpath joining it from further down the lane. He has knocked down the official sign at one entrance but the other is/was still accessable.

The man in question when I first did this in 1993 sat on his quad bike with a shotgun across his lap! We just ignored him which seemed to upset him somewhat. The joke is he is a laughing stock in Ennerdale village and appears to have no support from anybody else.

While I see Geofs point I feel it is incumbent upon us to constantly challenge these people, and not be intimidated otherwise they win!

Bryan - for what it's worth, I entirely agree. That's how bullies operate.

In normal circumstances, I'd agree. Bullies can only succeed if people give in to them, but I think this case is slightly different.

Here's an extract from a forum thread on Rockfax http://www.rockfax.com/forums/t.php?t=83017


"Im replying anonymously as I have some professional contact with Tom and would not want to sour our relationship.

There is a right of way through the farm but be warned, Tom has a violent temper and is aggressive in his general manner. He is also 6 foot 6 and built like a brick shithouse, so dont think you are a rufty tufty climber and can handle him, you'll just end up very sore. There are rumours that he has shot at the local mrt when they crossed his land on a rescue.

You do have right of way just take great care"

Seems like a chap to avoid!

We did a variation from Borrowdale to Patterdale, missing out Grasmere and saving a day.
After leaving Borrowdale you take a path off up to the left of the main route to Greenup Edge. This path leads straight up to Dock Tarn. From there follow a bearing over to Blea Tarn and then the path down to the road at the south end of Thirlmere. From there is a path to the bottom of Raise Beck. Up Raise Beck to Grisedale Tarn and then down to Patterdale. About 17 - 18 miles (gods knows in Kms - I'm Imperial) If youu've got any energy you can then do St Sunday Crag or the Helvellyn alternatives as well!!

Thanks for the hints/tips and warnings - looks like another planning session coming up this weekend.

If "Tom has a violent temper and is aggressive in his general manner. He is also 6 foot 6 and built like a brick shithouse, so dont think you are a rufty tufty climber and can handle him, you'll just end up very sore. There are rumours that he has shot at the local mrt when they crossed his land on a rescue"
- jail him!!
Tony wotsisname got jailed and he was defending his house from law-breakers. This man is preventing legal access.....

and has been jailed for it in the past, as far as I know and it's been going on for years.

It will be interesting when the CROW Act comes into force next month.