Navigating whiteouts

Any advise please

1 to 20 of 92 messages
13/05/2012 at 07:55
Went to Ben Nevis earlier this week and was great but although we got, to and from alright if it wasn't for the stone markers and foot steps, I found navigating in the near whiteout quite hard especially I could barely see more then 5-10 meters
And at one point seeing my own hand infront of me was interesting, although I had a compass and map, if it wasn't for the stone markers I wouldn't have been able get a baring. So now I'm wondering what if it wasn't Ben Nevis and didn't have any friendly markers or rocky out crops with even worse visibility. I'm ok with navigating when I can see, (not great mind) but as for when cant see, I'm not sure I could do it at all.

Thanks for pointing in the right direction
13/05/2012 at 08:11
It would depend completely on the situation..... if proceeding would put you at danger of walking off a cliff or some such then it makes sense to sit it out. Obviously when in the planning stage of the trip all of these (potential) factors need to be gone through and planned for.
13/05/2012 at 08:43

Navigation in whiteout conditions needs confidence in your navigation skills. If just 'ok' when you can see you need a bit more practice, then start going out in the dark for some night navigation in particular when there is low cloud. To navigate in poor conditions you will have to know about pacing, on the level, uphill and downhill and also timing which does require a bit of effort to get it right. Several organisations run navigation courses but if you want to go a bit further why not subscribe to a Summer ML Training Course where the above will be instructed together with other skills.

Slainte

Lindsay 

GOF
13/05/2012 at 09:32
Go out at night and/or the thickest hill clag you can manage and practice finding identifiable points. Practice pacing, walking on a bearing, timing, interpreting slope aspect from the map and what your feet are telling you.

One tip given to me by a mate (Winter ML holder and experienced winter mountaineer) and my ML assessor (Mountain Guide) is in snow and very poor visibility switch to a 1:50,000 map. There is less detail to confuse and the features shown are big enough to be identifiable on the ground from the map.

Also get yourself ski goggles with either clear lenses or lenses with a very pale yellow or blue tint - scottish light needs to be quite low level compared to the alps so you dont need dark lenses and the pale tint does enhance contrast.
GOF
13/05/2012 at 09:42

One thing you can retain on steeper ground is slope aspect and changes of slope.  You can get a remarkable amount of info from it in a lot of places.

If you're at a known(ish) place and there's more than one of you then you can leapfrog one another, using yourself as bearing targets.  Of course, super-low visibility that will give you whole meters... perhaps!

Pete.

13/05/2012 at 10:51

Think yourself lucky you had the stone markers and footsteps to follow on this occasion. True whiteouts are completely different. Everything is the same colour in a true whiteout, and it's very difficult to figure out which way the ground is sloping. Still... there are neat little tricks you can use. One is to gather an armful of snow, and make little snowballs, lobbing them ahead of you as you walk. Naturally, this works best when there's soft snow everywhere. As each little snowball lands, it creates an instant visual reference ahead of you, convincing you that you are actually making forward progress, and at the same time, letting you know which way the ground is sloping. If you lob a snowball ahead of you and it disappears... then stop immediately... because there's a cliff ahead!

The last time I walked in a true whiteout was in the Alps, and there were three other people following me, and none of them had ever walked in a whiteout before. One of them commented on how slowly I was walking, so I let him take the lead, and he immediately realised the problem for anyone leading in those conditions. There's a HUGE difference between facing straight into whiteout conditions, and following someone else's footsteps. Each of those three guys stepped forwards to see just how blank things looked ahead, then they each stepped back and were more than happy just to follow my footsteps. When we reached a high pass, me met another walker coming the other way, and he was a bit worried about proceeding any further under those conditions. However... he'd trodden clear footsteps up from one refuge... and our own footsteps offered him a clear route onwards. We simply exchanged footsteps!

13/05/2012 at 11:15

Incidentally... check this link...

I have no idea if John Martin continued developing his 'White-out Torch' after demonstrating it at CoLab 2009, but it was an interesting idea. The device was intended to shine red laser lines ahead of the user, in a grid formation. If the ground was sloping, then the lines would also slope, providing an instant visual reference in conditions where no other references were visible.

13/05/2012 at 15:09
Oh wow thanks for the response peeps some interesting tips I'll have to look into these navigation courses as Im not sure if learning as I go along is such a good idea, be it very fun!
I must say I really wasn't expecting a snow storm on Nevis especially as the weather below 'was' really nice but I went prepared for a possible downpour, with my fairly new rab latok trek, which I found in previous rainy conditions it was quite good. But man it's breath ability goes out the window as it frosts up an I turn into an ice man!!
And I dunno if it's just me but it's was oddly tranquil in that whiteout! Especially when the wind dies down
13/05/2012 at 15:13
One very good way to get good at map work is go orienteering.  Considerably cheaper than most navigation courses, and repeat prescriptions of lots of practice.
13/05/2012 at 15:43

One other tip too add to above advice.

 If you know what way wind is blowing, (say West) and in an area with nothing about to deflect wind. You can have a good idea which way is Westerly by wind hitting you or blowing snow along. 

13/05/2012 at 16:58
Infinite wrote (see)
I must say I really wasn't expecting a snow storm on Nevis especially as the weather below 'was' really nice


In the higher mountains in Scotland it can snow at any time of the year, the summer months are no exception.

There is normally a large snow patch on the cairned path that last well into the summer.

Slainte

Lindsay 

GOF
13/05/2012 at 17:29
I was in falling snow on the Ben in July before now - not a white out by any means, but interesting all the same (and it was 21C at the Nevis Inn).
GOF
13/05/2012 at 18:30

Plenty of useful pointers already given, but one potential help that hasn't been mentioned yet is gps. Now (imo) it's absolutely not a substitute for sound traditional navigation techniques, but it certainly can be a very useful (and reassuring) supplement.

It can be used to help you practice the other techniques such as pacing, timing, positioning by angle of slope, walking on a bearing etc., giving you instant feedback on your success or otherwise. And of course if you're using those techniques for real, the ability to confirm a positional fix can tell you if you're navigating accurately, or warn you early if you're not, giving you a better chance to evaluate what's going wrong and try again.

Of course you could even pre-program the route into the gps and use it as your primary means of navigation - for example the safe dogleg route off Ben Nevis's summit avoiding the gully tops is printed on the BMC Mountain Map and in other places and could be pre-programmed. I'd stress though that gps navigation has its own set of pitfalls and isn't a panacea - I'd not want to be navigating by gps in a whiteout without knowing I had the other tools in my kitbag, but I think a blend of approaches can work very well.

13/05/2012 at 18:33

Indeed,

 Many a person has been caught out by the fact it may be 'nice and sunny', but as you gain height the temp. drops. Usually around 6.5c per 1000m, on a still day. Even more if it's windy and you take the wind chill effect in to account.

 Cloud, rain, etc. also have an effect, damp conditions cool you down too.

13/05/2012 at 18:52

Matt C's advice is good, but do remember that even a GPS is not totally accurate.

 It can be 10m or more out, OK so can nav.ing from a map and compass, maybe even more if you get it compleately wrong

 I'm just saying on somewhere like the Ben, do realise that the GPS could be 'out' by enough that, in a white-out, dense cloud, etc. don't blindly rush off on the bearing. You still need to take care that the cliffs maybe closer than indicated.

GOF
13/05/2012 at 19:01
More to the point.

GPS will you a straight line between two points - regardless as to what lies between those two points.

preprogamme by all means, but make sure your waypoints do not have an insurmountable or just plain dangerous hazard between them
GOF
13/05/2012 at 19:39
I think that goes under the heading of "Keep Brain In Gear" no matter what method of navigation you choose....  the same observation could be made of following a compass bearing.
Edited: 13/05/2012 at 19:41
13/05/2012 at 20:05

Of course it could, I tried not to say different

 Things like not setting magnetic devation, setting compass wrong by even 2deg. can make a very big differance.

 Getting it wrong, by whatever method can be very dangerous, if not lead to serious injury or, god forbid, death.

13/05/2012 at 21:04

GPS will you a straight line between two points

Bit like a compass!

[GPS] not a substitute for sound traditional navigation techniques, but it certainly can be a very useful (and reassuring) supplement.

Indeed.  The basics remain the same whichever tools you use: know where you are, and where you are going.  Staying in touch with where you are makes where you're going a lot easier.  There may be a tendency with GPS to assume that since you can find out any time where you are that that's the same as knowing where you are, but it's not...

Pete.

13/05/2012 at 21:24
Very few "choose"the conditions and surprisingly most are ill
prepared when they arrive.Reading about it,even having it
explained bears no comparison to when it happens and you
are there by yourself or even worse responsible for others.
Try the experience ,enjoy it "afterwards"and go again.
It's not fun but it's a worth while experience.Cheers.

ps.Try at least one night walk every month,even lowland walks.
Edited: 13/05/2012 at 21:27
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