Welsh Coast to Coast

I am planning to walk the 'Welsh Coast to Coast - Snowdonia to Gower' (John Gillham, Cicerone), next summer with a walking buddy. It's my 40th and his 50th, so it's our little celebration!
Has anyone completed this walk or sections of it? We are planning a gentle bimble over 3 weeks. If anyone has any advice, it would be gratefully accepted!
Thanks
Chris

I tried to do this a few years ago but going from the Gower to Llanfairfechan (sp?) rather than the way described in the book. Not sure if the book was written by John Gillham as I don't have it any more. I suspect it was the same book though.

I walked from Swansea to Barmouth carrying a full pack with camping gear and then gave up. Mind you, I was contemplating giving up from the first day onwards. I had done other long distance walks (carrying camping gear) and was moderately fit, good at navigating and a fairly experienced walker. Here are my tips:

Much of the walking between Swansea and Barmouth is very difficult going because of paths being overgrown or blocked. We ended up spending a lot of time on the road. It was also harder than I really anticipated because even the flat bits are very hilly! Basically, I wasn't really fit enough. It is much harder than the English coast to coast, for example.

I was wearing 3 season boots but with all the road walking my feet got very sore. This is a dilemma though, as it was also very wet. So, it's a hard decision what to wear on your feet. Comfort and the necessary waterproofness to deal with very boggy ground and quite a lot of rain is always a tricky decision. I carried sandals and wore boots but have wondered whether it might have been better to take lightish boots and running shoes for the road sections and the evenings. Tricky one this.

It goes through some really spectacular bits of Wales and some of it is beautifully remote. But be prepared to fight for it. I would advise against trying to do this unless you (and your companion)are fairly determined can laugh about adversity. Don't underestimate the difficulties. The access to footpaths may have improved since I did it but, frankly, I doubt it. And this was a major problem for us. I was fully aware at the outset that often what is marked as a right of way on the map is not there on the ground but I didn't realise how much of a problem this can be when not on the open fellside. We encountered barbed wire and impenetrable undergrowth often and I discovered that blocked paths are very hard to deal with in semi-urban and agricultural areas.

I have often wondered whether we did it the wrong way round really - we had this idea that it would make sense to do the hilliest bits last. On reflection, I think the snowdonia sections might actually be easier in many ways because the going underfoot is a lot easier than some of the southern parts. So they might help to get you fit enough to deal with the rest!

If your rationale is that doing it in three weeks means you can do shorter days then I would be very careful about this. IIRC many sections would be hard to shorten without wild camping, so you'll need to think carefully about this before hand. If you intend to simply increase the number of rest days - or have days where you do day walks from some point along the route, that would be easier.

It has always really bugged me that I didn't finish this walk and I would love to go back and have another go sometime. Perhaps just out of stubborness really - although I am fitter now than I was then and maybe anticipating the road walking and difficulty with paths might help me be better prepared. I have seldom found anyone bonkers enough to give it a go! I don't want to sound too negative about this walk at all but I found it very arduous and I don't give up on things that easily. I do think it's worth doing though.

Thanks for this Cath, I can understand what you are saying about the southern part as I live in Swansea. We are going North to South and we are planning 10-12 mile days (and wild camping where possible!).
We are doing a week walking then a week back at home, then a week walking, etc as we both run businesses and we could not take 3 weeks off in a row :(
I plan to walk in trail shoes (haven't worn boots for months now), but the dodgy paths and road walking does worry me!
We are customising the southern part of the route as we are armed with 'local knowledge'!

Sounds good Chris. Hope I didn't come across as too negative there. I was wondering if this thread would bring a load of responses from people saying "what's she on about; it's a piece of p*ss" but notice it hasn't happened yet! I think the road walking could be OK if you're prepared for it and have the right footwear. We walked along the road for a long time around Lyn Brianne and I was still glad to be there - it was really spectacular. We stayed in a youth hostel that night (can't recall the name) and I remember when we finally came off the road there was what appeared (on the map) to be a bridleway for about 1.5 miles to the youth hostel. So, we thought that it would be OK 'cos it led to the hostel so should have seen enough traffic to keep it passable. It turned out to be hugely boggy, full of fallen trees, head high vegetation and large boulders and took hours. By the time we got to the hostel, my boots were totally soaked through and I was utterly knackered. The hostel was great though - it had gas lights and wasn't on the road (IIRC). Drygan Fawr and the Black Mountain were great too.

I've just remembered too that one of the other really big obstacles (physically and psychologically!) we faced was forestry commission land. I lost count of the number of impenetrable forests we got lost in. I have one enduring memory of trying to fight my way through a boggy plantation and having to crawl over fallen trees and duck under low branches, on no sort of path, with a full pack and feeling somewhat demoralised. In the end we retraced our steps (or, stumbles, rather) and walked all the way round on the road. You couldn't get me to enter forestry commission land on pain of death for years after that trip - I was too traumatised. LOL.

Strangely, I'm almost jealous of your plans. I'd like to go back and beat it into submission some time - even if only on principle. I would love to hear all about your route and how you get on.

I don't think that this is your proposed route but some general comments might be relevant.
Last year I did the Cambrian Way, a high level route from Cardiff to Conway covering a total of 275 miles. This route was devised by A.J. Drake and is available as a self-published book. I intended to do it in one go over three weeks but stopped at Barmouth after 4 days of continuous torrential rain made worse by my spare clothing having been stolen a week before from a campsite in Rhandirmwyn.
I completed the Barmouth to Conway section a couple of months later.
This is a very tough walk over some pretty remote country but the hardest part was perhaps where it was least expected, through mid-Wales and here I completely agree with Cath. Many footpaths seem to be deliberately obscured or re-routed. I even came across one sign that had been uprooted and buried in the undergrowth by a stream crossing that said something like 'walkers welcome'! Another problem was that villages where I thought I could buy some more supplies turned out to have no shops.
Your exact route may be different but I'm sure you will be going through similar areas so don't rely on that shop being open to buy something for lunch, or worse, to get your next few days food. Also something to watch out for are the dreaded trail bikes which seem to have chewed up most of the paths over the lower hills around Machen and Pontypool and around Fforest Fawr.
Reading through this it all sounds a bit grim and I don't want to put you off. In fact although the Cambrian Way was hard going in places, looking back, I covered some great walking country and did enjoy most of the route; the sun even shone for a whole four days!

LOL, David. Is it something about Barmouth? I remember sitting by the side of drystone wall in the drizzle eating an energy bar (clutching at straws?!) and feeling thoroughly dejected. We were only about 100 metres above sea level and had only been going about an hour and we were drenched and the mist was so thick we could hardly see our hands in front of our faces. I was looking at the map and seeing that we had to get all the way, I think, to Trawysfynth (sp?) and it seemed hopeless. That was when we finally decided to give up and I was really relieved! Funny how your post is similar to mine in tone - kind of "it's a struggle but worth doing". Glad I'm not the only masochist around. :-)

Thanks guys! Can't wait!

I can fully understand what you mean about 'a struggle but worth doing it'. I've never attempted this particular route, but on the one hand I have encountered the sort of navigational 'challenges' you describe and on the other I've encountered some fantastic remote scenery in those areas of mid-Wales.

Actually, if anyone reading this is a 'multi-disciplinary' outdoors type then I'd wholeheartedly recommend doing Wales coast to coast by bike - the Sustrans Lon-Las-Cymru route is excellent. I took a week over it in May three years ago, camping and taking the off-road sections where available, and had a fantastic time. We omitted Anglesey but went from Bangor to Chepstow (there's a Cardiff finish too).

I recollect Barmouth as a happy place - chance for a grand cafe breakfast having come down from the Rhinogs and before crossing the estuary and tackling the hills west of Cader Idris. The route continues to Machynlleth and then under Plynlimon to Devil's Bridge, and on past Strata Florida to Llanwrtyd Wells - we ducked out of atrocious weather to Dolgoch youth hostel which was a great out-of-the-way bolthole! In fact checking for Llyn Brianne on the map just now that must be the one Cath refers to. We were the only people there apart from the volunteer warden. Unfortunately I believe it's on the YHA's closure list - due to go in Oct 2007!

From Dolgoch we finished in a day and a half, via Hay on Wye, over Gospel Pass, down to Abergavenny and over to Chepstow - I think we put in a 70 mile day because the route over the Black Mountains felt so flat in comparison to what we'd already done!

Anyway sorry to go a bit off-topic, and I don't suppose that helps you much Chris, but your thread brought back the memories for me - thanks :)

Yes, Dolgoch, that's it Matt! Thanks. Bike ctc sounds good. <hijack> My Dad did the English mountain bike coast to coast and he sent me a series of postcards - one of which made me cry with laughter. I know this doesn't sound very funny, but he cracked his sternum falling off his bike and was trying to soldier on - I don't think he realised he'd cracked his sternum at the time. Anyway, he'd sent one postcard detailing his fall and saying that his chest was sore. The next postcard (which to my shame amused me so much) simply said "much pain pumping up tyre, love Dad". </hijack>

Hi guys, I've picked up a copy of John Gillham's Snowdoia to Gower book and tracked down this thread!  Hmmm mixed views eh!  I was wondering if Chris, or anybody else on here, has given the walk, or an updated version of it, a go since this thread died its death?

Any info would be greatly appreciated, it looks like a good, tough, hidden gem!  Feedback greatly appreciated....  Ta!

Well a couple of diaries (not mine) of walking the cambrian way (and some other nice long distance paths) - here.

One thing I would say is that if you are worrying about potentially neglected footpaths in mid/south wales there's a hugely reccomendable alternative loop back up to the N coast from Barmouth.

Basically just follow the hills NE - full length of Cadair, Dovey hills, Arrans, Hirnaunts, Berwyns and then along the Clywdians on Offas dyke back to the north coast. With a tent could take some of the Arenigs in too.  Very natural geographically with some really nice scenery etc. Needs a little road/off path walking but certainly nothing impossible.

I remember Barmouth as a wonderful place in blazing sunshine  

Thanks Martin, that site looks like a decent read in general, will take a proper look tonight.  I'm familiar and comfortable with the top part of the route, although you do recommend a pretty nice walk in it's own right there, some excellent quiet hills.  It's the mid Wales stuff rom the book I want to specifically check up on, just to give an idea of how it's changed since the book was published - taking into account Cath's experience it seems it's changed a fair bit!  I'm also wondering how much it may have changed since Cath walked tackled it too. 

There's nothing like a bit of insight and opinion into the planning stages of what looks like a cracking long distance walk!  Thanks again.

Oh and Barmouth could just about be seen through semi open eye lids as the sand was being blown all round the town last time I was there, it is good for chippys though eh!

Hi Davo did you manage to do the route I picked up the book going cheap some years ago and now that I have some time to spare I will do the route next week. The bottom half of the walk looks tricky from a navigational and fighting your way through point of view. will a machete and bolt cutters be req. I am thinking that it will be a good warmer upper for the Alpine pass route in Switzerland.

      Dabbs 

Hi Dabbs, yeah we did this in September 2009 going South to North. There were three of us and two of us completely loved it, from the sheer beauty of Gower and the wildness of it all in mid Wales through to the northern section which I was pretty familiar with anyway. As it's not a national trail and you have to focus on the route making it allows you to adapt and change to match your needs at the time, to be fair this was John Gillham's view of it in the book - make your own decisions and make it your own. I remember a couple of detours to hit little villages to pick up a few supplies etc and then work your way back onto the route further up, but by and large we went through all the major highlights. We did miss out Cadair Idris (it was out and back) and Snowdon (done it that many times) but I don't feel this detracted from it in any way, we saw it as a crossing rather than something we had to follow religiously.
I had emailed John G in advance about any known changes / forestry fences etc, he was really helpful and his response put us at ease. Didn't find any real issues with the route in the South, certainly nothing that you couldn't fix if you went a bit off plan. I recall one boggy forest further up where the diggers had mashed up the path and we encountered some bastard grass a couple of times that slowed progress but on the whole found it fun watching each other trip up.

Some road walking involved but I didn't find it unpleasant and don't recall it being excessively more than the English C2C and if it was it was in lovely locations. I think we finished in 12 days but we did do a few monster days in the middle - generally looking to end up by a pub and a couple of times getting there quite late only to find it a victim of the pub closures - heartbreaking stuff when you've set your heart on a pint before bed. The 3rd member of the group did quit at Machynlleth though, this was after a few of the bigger days with said pub heartbreaks, he said it was too much and he's done things like the GR20 before (although I strongly suspect a call to his gf the night before had something to do with the decision).

Barmouth was good for a good bit of dinner and watch the passers by - I wouldn't go for the weekend! All in all, yes it was tough but rewardingly tough, we did have amazingly good weather for Wales which will certainly have helped, only a couple of patches of rain in all. I walked in boots and swapped to trainers for the last few days as the feet were in need of a break. Leave the machette at home