Tenzing's Son Interviewed

Jamling Norgay Tenzing, son of the legendary first ascendant of Everest, is currently touring the UK on a tour supported by Mountain Hardwear and Cotswold Outdoor. We were fortunate enough to talk to him when he came to Manchester to speak about his experiences as climbing leader of the 1996 Everest IMAX Expedition and, in particular, how climbing Everest helped bring him closer to the memory of his father and helped him understand Sherpa culture.

Jamling was on the mountain during the storm that killed nine climbers that year and as a result has strong opinions on the importance of climbers serving an apprenticeship before they venture onto Everest. He also spoke to us about Sherpa culture, the Maoist insurgency and how it felt to stand in his father's footsteps on the roof of the world. He's also the author of Touching My Father's Soul, a personal account of his experiences in 1996.

Jamling Norgay is also due to speak at Oxford and Reading. More details here.

JN I feel it was my destiny to climb this mountain. None of my other siblings, none of them, were interested in climbing this mountain, but I feel I was born to climb it. I believe that I was meant to climb this mountain one day. I always wanted to climb this mountain since I was a young boy.

OM Did you feel different from other Sherpas as a member of the Tenzing family, when did you become aware that you were different?

JN I knew who my father was, who this man was and what he had done when I was maybe around six or seven years old. He was not just a father but a bigger man. You know, people recognised him, he was a well known person for what he had achieved in life.

I always wanted to climb this mountain, sub-sconsciously I always knew I would climb this mountain one day. I didn't know when, but it was just a matter of time.

OM Even as a child?

JN Yeah, as a child I knew that I wanted to climb this mountain one day, as I was growing up in school and I went to university in the US, working in the US, then I moved back and a few years later, I finally got the opportunity when the time was right.

OM Did that make you different to other Sherpas. Strangely it's not really part of the Sherpa culture to climb. Most Sherpas climb because they have to. It's unusual for a Sherpa to climb for pleasure. Tashi [his nephew] is quite similar I think, because he has a passion for mountaineering like a western climber.

JN In this world, the mountains have always been there for millions of years, the Sherpas never climbed mountains, Tibetans never did. My father was one of the first Sherpas that climbed for pleasure. The enjoyment was special to him, but at the same time he was being paid. So both were important for him. He was getting paid for something he loved doing.

I feel very closely related to that because I don't climb for money. I wanted to climb this mountain because it was my desire, my passion to climb this mountain. And it just happened that the team came and said, we'd like you to be the climbing leader of this team, what about joining us?

OM Did you have to think hard about your answer?

JN No, I immediately said yes, because that was exactly what I was waiting for. I didn't have to go around looking for sponsors, I tried the year before in 1995, I tried very hard to raise money, but I couldn't raise money, so I couldn't go. So I thought I'd wait and see what happens, and next year, it was right there, so I think it is destiny.

OM You talk about climbing Everest bringing you closer to your father. Before you climbed Everest, did you feel that he was distant to you, was there part of him that you didn'r understand?

JN Yes, you see, we were in boarding school most of our chilldhood lives, from class one to 12 in Darjeeling. My father was away a lot because of his fame and his work, he was always travelling around the world and a lot of times he was in the mountains for trainiing. So I hardly got to meet this man. As a child we got three months of holiday and during that time we would see him some times and, you know, go out on a trek with him. And I didn't get to know him as well as I wanted to, and then he died when I was in college, at a young age.

So just at that point where you start to mature and understand and it's a good time to have a relationship. And it was too late. And I think it was my karma that I climb this mountain, it was a pilgrimage to me, a way of paying homage to my father.

I learned a great deal about my father, about Sherpas and their religion and I felt that the climb connected me with those things.

OM Is it because you felt your father was shaped so much by his own climbing that by doing that, experiencing what he would have experienced, that you would understand him better?

JN Yeah, in a way, being on the mountain, following in his footsteps, going through the hardships he did. His was a hundred times harder in those days, when he climbed, but I think the whole was a spiritual journey of being in the mountains and what happened, being connected with the Sherpa people there, not only the team members. There is this bonding that goes on, you learn a lot about your own religion, about the pujas [Sherpa Bhuddist blessing ceremonies] before you climb, the prayers, and you know. So much happening. It was a good experience for me.

OM It must have been a very traumatic time to be on the mountain [the IMAX expedition was on the hill at the same time as the '96 'Into Thin Air' disaster], did that make it a more intense experience?

JN Yeah it was an intense moment, but at the same time I learned a lot more. In a way it was a blessing in disguise for me. It gave me more experience of what can happen. I mean, your friends are there, lying dead on the mountain. There is nothing you can do to help these people, it gives you a good reality check.

You know and then, the other susprising thing is that Everest was in the limelight in 1953, the world talked about Mount Everest, the whole world, everybody in the world was talking about Everest in 1953 and my father. The next time Everest was in the limelight and the whole world talked about nothing but Everest was in 1996 when we went. I felt maybe there was something there?

OM Like it had come full circle? Is it hard being the son of such a famous man, when people hear the name 'Tenzing', they automatically think of your father. Is it difficult sometimes, do you feel you are in his shadow?

JN No, you see I have my own identity. I maintain my own identity and that's what I am. I mean, of course you will always be labelled as Tenzing's son, 'Jamling, he's Tenzing's son'. I mean it's nice to be in the shadow, I grew up with everybody saying he is Tenzing's son. But after climbing this mountain I was able to make my own mark. Set my own mark out, saying now out, I am independent.

OM I'm interested because one of the things I like about Sherpa culture is the acceptance inherent in Bhuddist religion which sometimes seems completely at variants with western climbers who are very achievement orientated and very focussed, it's all about getting to the top...

Yes, it''s an ego thing.

OM Does that make things difficult for Sherpas when they are working with expeditions?

JN You see Sherpas, you said it, are very easy going. First it's a job, when they are up on the mountain, so they will do their job. If they are asked to do certain things, that's what they do. I mean they may be thinking, look at this idiot, what does he think he is doing, but they don't go up and tell this guy. It's bad respect you know, to do that.

OM But Sherpas may be thinking, climbing, it's a crazy thing to do?

JN Yes, people do say, in the beginning, in the 1920s when the British started coming to climb Everest. People were thinking, why are you going up there, why do you want to kill yourselves?

OM Is it the same with trekking, you'd walk to market or to get home to your family, but for pleasure?

Exactly, it's part of their daily lives.

OM Is commercialised mountaineering changing Sherpas? I notice that Sherpas are now competing for speed records?

JN These are just a select few that are focussed on records. I think from what I know there are a few of these people who are into the record-breaking thing and they are on a different trip. Three or four of these guys, they are out of the circle. Sponsorship, publicity, more money for them. It's better for them. It's a way of getting extra out of the mileage because as it is, you're already doing it [climbing Everest] you're getting paid to climb these mountains anyway, taking people up.

OM Is the record-breaking a good or a bad thing then?

JN I think, I cannot say whether it is good or bad, it depends on each individual, I think the important thing is why are you doing it - are you doing it because you want to break a record? Are you doing it because you will get more bonuses? Or are you doing it because maybe you'll get more sponsorship in the future, more money? Bettering your life?

OM But maybe those things are the same. If you have more sponsorship, then you can send your children to a better school.

JN Yeah, but are you doing it just to say, I'm going to beat him, what the hell. That would be bad. To do it for work is fine, that is understandable, if you are being paid for it, you tell your sahib, I will do it in eight hours and he says that's great man, we will support you.

OM When you're on the mountain, as a Sherpa, you have a physiological advantage, more red blood cells and so on, when you're climbing with western climbers, is there a big difference in performance? Do you feel that you're mucg stronger, or is it still very hard for you on Everest?

JN I felt very, very strong. Personally, when I'm in the mountains, I feel at home. You know, I am able to perform better, somehow than anyone else.

OM So a climber like Ed Viesturs [who is renowned for his strength at altitude], would he be as strong?

JN There are some exceptions you know, Viesturs is extremely strong. There are a few people in the world, you know, you could call them 'Sherpas' almost. He is different from anyone else, more like a Sherpa.

OM So for you, is there a big difference between working at 6000 metres and 8000 metres?

JN No. At 8000 metres I am fine. It's like skiiing. You know, you learn to ski when you are small and then you don't ski for 20 years, but then when you ski after 20 years, you are still able to ski. You don't forget something. This is the same way, but in the sense of being physically able to adapt because you have it in you.

OM So, did the IMAX experience in '96 with the disaster. Did that change your attitude to commercial expeditions on Everest? You've been quoted as saying that Everest is losing its spirit of adventure, that anyone can roll up, regardless of ability and experience and just pay money to be taken to the top.

JN I don't mind commercialisation, I think I am no-one to say that you can climb this mountain or you can't - the mountain is there for everyone to climb. But I think the important thing here is how you do it. Whatever you charge, everyone has the right to make money. But I think the important thing here is that the commercial teams that take climbers on these mountains, they have to be careful who they take.

I think it's important for them to make sure that their clients have done an apprenticeship, you know, that they've climbed other mountains, they've reached this level, up the stairs. Then they can say, now you are ready to climbing Everest, now give me your $60,000 and I will take you. If you do it that way then it's not a problem, but if you just take somebody off the street here and they're on Everest and they're teaching them how to put on crampons, then that's a risk factor. You risk the life of that guy, you risk the life of other members and you risk the lives of the Sherpa people. Because ultimately it's the Shepas who bring you down, rescue you.

OM Do Sherpas get enough credit for the work they do on expeditions?

JN No, no, I don't think so. Sherpas are very humble people and whether they are printed in the papers, they don't care, they are just doing a job. Buit when you look at it from the point of view of the wider world, they don't get credit.

People don't know the real story behind that American guy who climbed, or the blind person who climbed. All these people, how did they make it?

OM Can I ask you about the Maosist insurgency and how badly it's affected the Sherpas. Myabe not so much with climbing, but with trekking and tourism generally, there's been a big impact on numbers.

JN Because of the Maosists, Nepal has been affected badly. Both in the sense of tourism and also in terms of public safety. People are not safe, they don't feel safe in the country. A lot of people are confused, I mean, why is this happening? Why are Nepalese killing Nepalese? Nepalese people are not the kind of people who kill each other.

Nepalese people are so nice, very peaceful you know. They are humble, beautiful people. What is it that motivates these people to do this? Why is there a Maoist uprising, how did it come about? I don't know about politics, I don't follow politics. But I think whatever's happening now, it should stop. Everybody in the world would like to see it stop. Peace is something everybody looks forward to.

I wish there was a way that the government and Maosists can talk and settle this thing because you are killing your brothers and sisters.

OM Should tourists and trekkers continue to travel to Nepal?

JN I would definitely encourage tourism. Tourism, this spring has dropped a lot, maybe 40 or 50 per-cent, I'm not sure, but it has dropped drastically. And tourism is one of the industries that supports everyone, it's a chain. If you stop tourism, everyone from the guides and the airlines right down to the janitors is hit.

A porter during the trekking season can make more then he would in a year from his farming. So I hope, Nepal is such a beautiful country, but this is a problem, remove this problem and everyone would be happy.

OM For these people to take such extreme action, they must be very angry and have very real grievances, to be violent in a country with such a friendly culture, they must have been pushed to extremes?

JN Something must have happened.

OM Going back to Everest. How did it feel to summit the mountain, what went through your head. Can you think clearly at that altitude.

JN When I reached the summit I felt very nice, just that sense of accomplishment. I felt very humble, you are standing on top of the world, you've worked hard for those two months and it was something I'd dreamt of all my life. I was finally there. There was a sense of achievement, being able to stand on the same spot where my father had stood.

It was very difficult to explain how that felt, the rush of happiness and at the same time, a bit worried because you still had to come down. You're only half way, up there.

OM How long were you up there?

JN We were there for about two hours - we were filming up there. Waiting for the cameras, filming, but we had the most excellent weather, there was hardly any wind, beautiful weather. It was great, the whole day.

OM That must have felt quite strange after the storms?

Yes, after the storms and people dying and all that happening and you're up there and it's the best day that anyone could have been on the summit.

OM Were you nervous at being in such an exposed, dangerous place?

JN No, forget about being nervous, you don't think about being afraid. I think that's one of the things about being in the mountains, you don't think about these things. When you're climbing, you might fall. When you climb you just focus and climb and climb.

OM How did it change you? Do you feel it changed you? Are you a different person after Everest.

After climbing this mountain, like I said earlier, the whole experience of climbing this mountain was a change in my life. It made me understand the mountain, it made me understand the Sherpas. It made me understand more about our religion.

OM Did you feel that growing up in Darjeeling and being at boarding school that you were a little apart from your Sherpa roots?

JN Yeah, definitely. I used to speak fluent Sherpa language, but after going to a British school in Darjeeling - nine months of English, nothing else permitted and you know, you forget your language. And you're away from the rest of your community. So you only spend time in your community during holiday time, that's it.

I still followed the culture, that never went away, but just being apart from the community...

OM Are there still mountains you want to climb? I've read that you want to climb the Seven Summits [the highest mountain on each continent] is that true?

JN Well yeah, I am thinking about it. I'd like to. It's been quite a long time since I've been back in the mountains and I'd like to. I've continued doing ice climbing and rock climbing, but mountaineering. I've stopped for a while because of pressure from my family. I made promises to my family.

I'm back climbing small mountains now, trekking peaks. Island Peak, Lobuje, you know. When I go back in a week's time I'm going to climb, I'm taking these guys on Island Peak then in the fall, I'm going to climb some mountains in Sikkim. I just want to get climbing because my hand itches, I need to get out. Trekking is not enough sometimes.

I finally got my family to agree to me climbing again. My children, two six year old girls and a nine year old, theyt all rock climb.

OM Would you like them to climb big mountains in the future?

JN No, I wouldn't encourage them. I want them to make their own decisions over what they want to do in life. If they want to climb, I'll support them, but if they don't then that's fine.

OM Is that what your father would have said?

JN I think yes, that's exactly what he would have said. The strange thing is, my father discouraged me so many times, at the end of the day, when I went back home after climbing Everest, my relatives told me, you know, your father always told us that you'd be the one to climb this mountain one day and take his place. He always knew it, but he didn't encourage me - he let me find my own way.

OM Jamling Norgay, thank you very much for your time.

JN Thank you.